S13E1 - Season 13 Kick Off: Dreaming of the Future

Andrew: Welcome to the Integrate Schools podcast. I'm Andrew, a White dad from Denver.

Val: And I'm Val, a Black mom from North Carolina.

Andrew: And this is Season 13 Kickoff: Dreaming of the Future. Val, we are back!

Val: So inspiring. I'm very happy to be back.

Andrew: Yes, season 13. We are back for more. It has not been 13 years that the podcast has been around, but–

Val: Nobody has to know that, though.

Andrew: With podcasting, you can stop making episodes and then start making them again and just call it a new season, as it turns out!

Val: That's right. That's right.

Andrew: We have seasons, but we have been going for, um, almost eight years now and have over–

Val: Wow

Andrew: –170 episodes of this podcast, which is kinda crazy.

Val: We actually have people who have listened all that time.

Andrew: All the way, and we are very, very grateful for them. And new listeners, we are glad you are here too.

Val: Absolutely!

Andrew: If you are just now joining us, we are glad you're here. We try to have thoughtful, nuanced conversations about race and parenting and the persistent ongoing segregation of our country's schools.

Val: That's right.

Andrew: And we talk about segregation because schools are as segregated now as they were during the Civil Rights Era. And they continue to get more segregated, not less segregated, and that's a problem for all sorts of reasons.

Val: Yeah. And it seems like we should be past some of these conversations, but what we recognize is that parents are making these decisions every year, every day. They're balancing their values versus what is available to them.

Andrew: Yeah, absolutely. And, you know, in this moment, particularly the, you know, institution of public education is under attack. It is a tricky time to be fighting for public schools at all. But, we certainly think that if we're gonna fight for public schools, we should be fighting for integrated public schools, because ultimately, if we wanna have a multiracial democracy, we need to have true multiracial education.

Val: And if we're gonna fight, we are going to do it together. And so, by design, we are here representing Black moms and White dads from different places in the country who are trying to figure this out.

Andrew: Constantly trying to figure it out. We certainly–

Val: Yeah.

Andrew: –do not have all the answers.

Val: Absolutely not.

Andrew: We do not know what the answer to creating a more just school system is. But our system continues to be, uh, segregated, continues to not serve all the kids that it should serve. Continues–

Val: Right

Andrew: –to not be the building block of democracy that we believe public education needs to be if we're going to thrive as a country. And so, the only way that system changes is if those of us who are part of it, particularly those of us with privilege of some sort (racial, economic, educational privilege), those of us that the system maybe undeservedly listens to more than others.

Val: Hmm.

Andrew: If those of us don't show up to try to make that change, the system is never gonna change. And so, certainly part of what we do here is try to call in those of us with privilege to be part of the work of creating a more just and equitable education system.

Val: That's right. And I think what I have learned and certainly continue to wrestle with every season and every year that we are in conversation, is that in many ways the system is working as designed. And so, we're part revolutionaries as well.

Andrew: Yeah.

Val: And the work that we're trying to do is revolutionary and, and not easy. And not something that is necessarily sought after by everyone.

So we're also building a coalition of folks who are excited to dig into this work together. And so I think part of the reason why we don't have the answer and we don't solve it every episode is this is something that we are building. It's not something that's already there for us to grasp.

Andrew: Yeah, we've got, we've got, you know, 400 years of history that we are fighting against. And, and we're in a particular moment right now in the country where there's not a lot of appetite for conversations about equity.

Val: Hmm.

Andrew: Conversations about justice. Conversations even acknowledging the existence of race. And so,

Val: Mm.

Andrew: We are gathering those people who are craving those conversations because they are out there, and they are hungry for those conversations. And so, listeners, we know that that is you, and we are glad that you are here with us to engage in those conversations. Even if it feels like much of the country is uninterested in them. We know that those conversations continue to be important, and we are gonna keep having them.

Val: Welcome, revolutionary!

Andrew: That's right. [Val chuckles]

That's right. In addition to conversations with experts, we also have conversations with parents and caregivers. People who are thinking about and talking about educational equity and justice.

Val: Mm-hmm

Andrew: And integration. And, that's our goal! We have a lot of great conversations planned for this season. Today, we're just gonna take a moment to reflect on where each of us finds ourselves at the beginning of this new season and this new school year.

Val: That's right.

Andrew: Where the country finds itself. And then sort of big-picture themes that we're planning to dig into this season.

Val: We also hope that you find yourself in part of these conversations, and if you don't hear yourself exactly represented in them, we encourage you to, to share this episode and all episodes with others, and listen, and have the conversations within your own community. That is how real change happens.

Andrew: Absolutely. And then, let us know what those conversations are. Let us know what we're missing. We know that we have gaps in our own understanding of the world, and where you feel us missing the boat, we wanna hear about it. So you can–

Val: That's right

Andrew: –always send us a voice memo, speakpipe.com/integratedschools , or just record a voice memo and email it to podcast@integratedschools.org. We are always grateful to hear from listeners.

Val: That's right. And so you said, you know, we get to do personal updates too, Andrew.

Andrew: Yes, we do! It is a big year for you, Val. The school year is starting off for you big.

Val: Oh my gosh.

Andrew: Tell us–

Val: Yeah.

Andrew: –what is new this year?

Val: Yeah. So, um. I have a kid in college.

Andrew: That's crazy!

Val: What in the entire world, I feel like when I started this podcast, I had a middle schooler, two middle schoolers. And now I have one college freshman and one high school senior. And I don't know how, because it is my birthday month, and I don't look a day over..29.

Andrew: 28, 29. [Val laughs] That’s what I was going to say, for sure!

Val: Yeah, absolutely! But, it's been going very well.

So, if you are just in the mood for a good ugly cry of an episode, please check out our concluding episode in season 12 when I was reflecting on the fact that we were making this transition. Um, and for those of you who have heard it, and you kind of felt with me, know that the transition has been so smooth.

Uh, I think he just started his sixth week in college.

Andrew: Crazy.

Val: Today he called for no reason just to talk about what was going on.

Andrew: Yay.

Val: Uh, in practice. He is going to class. I am very proud to say that one of the classes that he is in is African American Studies, and on his first test, he got a 100% because his mama don't play about African American history!

Andrew: That is right! [Val laughs] You would have had words with him if he had not–

Val: We need to have some words.

Andrew: –gotten 100% on that one!

Val: We need to have some words. Do you see these books? We need to have some words, okay? [Andrew chuckles] Don't play around.

Andrew: How would you say, like, reflecting on this, you know, the choice for college, which feels–

Val: Yeah

Andrew: -still at least a couple of years away for me, but,

Val: Yeah

Andrew: How did that feel different from, you know, your choices for his other schooling?

Val: So the decision for college, I will say, like, you know, in elementary school and middle school, we certainly play a larger role as caregivers in having that guidance, right? And then as they move into high school, they have a little more autonomy about, "Here's what I am looking for in a school. Here's what I want."

And so, we started to practice that once he got to high school. When it came to college, um, they... Can I be honest? We had a rubric. [Val laughs]

Andrew: Of course you did.

Val: Of course we did!

Andrew: Of course you did.

Val: And so, what we did, and literally it was led by him. You know, he identified what were some important factors for the school. And then had a percentage of like, "Hey, this is really important to me," whether it's, like location, student life, academics, having your major, what type of support, et cetera.

Like, those were all part of our decision, and it became, you know, a pretty clear-cut answer. It wasn't just on “feels.” Now, feels obviously matter. You want your kid to go someplace and be able to see themselves there, to see that they have a future there, and a path there that, because they are moving to the city and may very well vote in the city in which they live.

Like, is this a city that you want to invest your dollars and your time in for, you know, the next four years at least? Because this could be your new home. And so it was, it was, a process that we took seriously, and I think one that really, for us, helped us make the decision. But it was primarily led by him.

And because we had spent so much time talking about schools, and what's important, and values around community, we felt confident in his decision. And it has been A+ decision.

Now, uh, there are I think at least one class he's the only Black student, and this is new for him from high school. Not to have a, a diverse group of classmates, but to be the only Black student, this is his first time experiencing that. And he hasn't talked about it, which I am gonna make the assumption that he is, he's navigating well. You know? He doesn't feel as if he does not belong there. He feels like, "Hey, it was just, this is just the numbers, and I'm here to do my thing, and that's that."

So, I'm, I'm very proud. Very proud.

Andrew: That's amazing.

Val: And then I get to do it again!

Andrew: Yeah! Right on the cusp of right doing it all over again.

Val: We have started college applications for my daughter who's a senior in high school.

She's also doing, like, her visits, so we went to one locally. We have one out of town soon. And because she had the chance to attend some college visits with her brother, she has a little more exposure. So for all of those parents who have kids, like, close in age at all, include the younger child,

Andrew: Bring them along.

Val: Absolutely. Expose them as often as you can to these opportunities so that they have some idea and they know what to look forward to. Um, it does help to have an older sibling, kind of, forge the path and say like, "Here's just what to expect. Here's kinda what I like. Here's what I don't like," so that the, the other children can make their decisions.

And I don't even feel that old! Mm-mm.

Andrew: Well, you don’t look old at all.

Val: Thank you. So, those are my two babies, not so much babies. How are your two not so little babies doing?

Andrew: They're also not so little. Very smooth start to the school year for both of them. They're both at the same school as they were last year, so seventh grade and 10th grade. Both continuing on where they were and, uh, yeah, very happy to be there. My oldest joined the cross country team second semester last year and, um, it's a small school. There are not, not a ton of kids, and she actually lettered in cross country.

Val: Nice. Nice.

Andrew: And she got her letterman jacket. And she is so excited about it! She's got a, she's got a theater patch on it and a music patch on it and a cross country patch and she's just doing great.

And, um, yeah, and my youngest, you know, seventh grade. She's like right back in the thing by three days in. She's like, "Ugh, middle school," and there's middle school boys and all of that going on. But,

Val: Yeah.

Andrew: Been very smooth transition for them.

Val: Nice. Now, you also have an update for the good people because from what I hear, you are also back in school, my friend.

Andrew: I am also back at school. Um, I don't know what grade this would count as. I'm not a, a student, but I am teaching for the–

Val: Mm!

Andrew: –first time in a professional capacity, um, in two different schools. I'm teaching audio engineering, and I'm teaching musical theater. And it is…wild! [Val laughs] Val, when I tell you I always appreciated teachers.

And now, after having done it for about four days, man! Teachers are heroes.

Val: Absolutely. Absolutely. Okay, so tell me about, like, each of these classes and what you do. And I would push you. You have been teaching professionally for quite some time. Even if you've only had one student in me or a camp of students.

Andrew: Yeah.

Val: You have been teaching.

Andrew: Never as actually a teacher in a classroom–

Val: Of record.

Andrew: Teacher record–

Val: Yes.

Andrew: –with my own students. It's a lot. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I've, I feel the weight of that responsibility for sure, and, and just recognize, like, how many skills I have yet to learn.

But, yeah, I'm teaching at two different schools, two wildly different schools. One is a fairly, uh, privileged school, with a huge student body. The other is a credit recovery school, all–

Val: Okay

Andrew: –students who, very small school with all students who, for whatever reason, have not been able to thrive in traditional high schools and are here working towards GED or professional degrees.

Just very, very different student bodies. Very different teaching experiences.And makes me appreciate, yeah, both the work of teachers and then also all of the things that we ask schools to do that are far beyond just–

Val: Hmm.

Andrew: –you know, conveying content to students. But, um, you know, life, life is gonna life. And I see it a lot, particularly at this credit recovery school.

Val: And, you know, you know I've always had a heart for teachers on our show because I, I understand. You know, it's, it's, it's a lot, and we put a lot on teachers' plates, and every teacher is not perfect, every school is not perfect. And having honest conversations about where we can improve and celebrating what we're doing well. That all matters.

And so, I look forward to supporting you through this point in your career.

Andrew: I appreciate it.

Val: As a former teacher of the year, [applause audio] you know, I, I, I might still have some skills. It's been a minute.

Andrew: Absolutely. Yes.

Val: I think what will make you successful at it, even as you learn the tools of the trade, is you care deeply for people and you seek their humanity.

And that is not something that you learn in teacher preparation programs, per se. Like, that is a choice you make as the human you want to be for the young people in front of you. So I am grateful that they have you in front of them as they are navigating any number of life life-ing, because I trust that you'll see them and you'll want to know how you can help them make their lives better, and some of that might include sound engineering or theater.

Andrew: Yeah. Yeah, it's been, it's been a wild ride already, uh, in just a couple of weeks. I had my, my favorite student at the credit recovery school who was really into it. At one point, we were talking about how, how the human ear works and how we hear, and,

Val: Hmm!

Andrew: He's taking notes, and he's drawn a picture of the cochlea from my slide, and he's like, "Hang, hang on, mister.

Hang on. Don't go yet forward yet." He's taking notes, and afterwards, the, the teacher who, who's in there with him every day, I'm just there a couple of days a week, he was like, "If, if you told other teachers in this building that that student was taking notes like that, they would, would never believe you."

And I was just like,

Val: Hmm.

Andrew: Oh man, that is very exciting. And then… later that week, he brought a loaded gun to school.

Val: Hmm.

Andrew: And now he is not in school anymore. He got expelled.

Val: Hmm.

Andrew: And there was, you know, uh, he had a fight the day before with somebody. There was some, you know, gang activity.

Val: Mm-hmm.

Andrew: Outside of school, stuff going on. And, yeah, and now he's, he's not there anymore, and it's just–

Val: Hmm.

Andrew: –a reminder of all the stuff that people have going on that we often ask them to leave at the door when they show up at a school.

Val: Yeah

Andrew: And that’s just not practical sometimes.

Val: Yeah. I think the saddest part of that story is he had a spark that now he has to find another teacher like yourself to help him continue. But, I imagine if you have made the choice to bring a loaded gun to school, you feel threatened for your life. Like, y-your life feels threatened.

Andrew: Right.

Val: And, it's devastating that some young people are dealing with that when they are just trying to learn about–

Andrew: How the ear works.

Val: The way the ear works.

Andrew: Yeah. to hold

Val: It is a lot to hold. And I think one of the hardest things about situations like that, and there's gonna be lots of them if you stick around, you know, is that you don't get a ton of closure. Ever.

Andrew: Right, right.

Val: That's, that's tough. That's tough.

Andrew: That was a bummer.

Val: That is a bummer. That is a bummer

Andrew: That has been weighing on me for sure. Um, and,, also, you know, makes me even more committed.

Val: Mm.

Andrew: Doing the best I can for the kids that I get when I get them, you know?

Val: I, that is what turns people into educator activists.

Andrew: Yeah.

Val: Because you can't sit idly by just as a teacher and like you, when you understand all that young people are bringing, whether it's their identity, their learning needs, their communities. If they're facing food insecurity. Like, it just makes you wanna act.

Andrew: Yeah. We are gonna get to some more hope. But, but first we just–

Val: Yeah

Andrew: –want to take a little moment to, sort of, look at the state of public education right now. Which is, which is not where we're gonna find hope in this immediate moment. But we are gonna get there before the end of the episode, listeners, we promise.

You know, we, we find ourselves in this moment, the public education landscape is really being restructured in many ways, particularly at the federal level.

The Department of Education has been dramatically reduced and reorganized. Lots of important roles that had been happening there are either not happening or have been moved to other places. Not, certainly not happening in the same way they were. Civil rights enforcement is, you know, basic- basically ended.

Val: Yeah

Andrew: If it, if it is going on, it's usually looking for things like, quote-unquote, "reverse racism." Oversight of federal education dollars has been largely handed off to the states. Special education monitoring was woefully inadequate before and now is in really bad shape.

Lots of research and data collection that is not happening, that was happening. Things that were, you know, flawed in many ways and also were key tools to look at what was actually happening in our schools and ways to see whether or not our students were actually learning things that we wanted them to be learning, and a lot of that is not happening anymore.

It's troubling, and it's, it's worrisome, for sure. I think those are many things that we have just begun to start to feel the effects of because they're kind of long-range things.

You know, most education funding comes from the states. Most education decisions happen at the state or the district level, but the federal role has really hel- always been kind of long-range thinking. And that stuff going away doesn't immediately change a classroom tomorrow, but will have long-lasting effects, well into the future.

Val: Yeah, I don't understand the shortsightedness because I understand the interconnectedness.

Andrew: Yeah.

Val: And so, it only makes sense to take away all of these protections and defund and destabilize if I felt like the people I was harming had no impact on me. Were not connected to me. Were not equal to me.

But once you understand our interconnectedness, it really doesn't make sense, like, at all.

Andrew: Yeah.

Val: And in some strange way, it, I hope it's all for a money grab. That would, that would even make it a little bit easier. But once you grab all the money, then what?

Andrew: Right. What country do you have to live in then?

Speaking of, of money grabs, we are also seeing a massive expansion of vouchers and privatization schemes. And,

Val: Mhm

Andrew: You know, starting next year, there will be a new fed- federal tax credit that was part of the “Big Beautiful Bill.” $1,700 to support basically private school expenses. That'll be across the country.

There are already 30 states who have opted into that program.

And we already see many states with voucher programs that are in place.

Val: Mm-hm.

Andrew: That every place we see them, they are consistently providing funds to wealthy parents who are already sending their kids to private schools. To

Val: Yeah

Andrew: continue to go to those private schools on taxpayer expenses. And they're not getting better educational outcomes for it.

And so, yeah. It's a, it's a, it's a scary time for the state of public education.

Val: You said right now, we're not seeing the long-term effects of this, but we recognize that they will have long-term effects.

Andrew: Yeah

Val: And this type of backlash has been intense and incredibly effective. And oftentimes it takes a century to feel like we have regained ground on a national level.

The positive side of that, or the just the positive historical reality, is that there's always people working.

Andrew: Right.

Val: Always people working. So that once we get to the other side of this, we can trace back, like, people did not give up. There, there have been things that were done. We know that we had to move differently un- until the, the coast was a little bit clearer.

Andrew: Yeah.

Val: And so, that's, that's, that's where I'm finding a little hope. But,

Andrew: Yeah. There are some places who are, who are at least engaged in this work, and some of them, you know, more or less explicitly thinking about integration.

But, we see in so many cities right now declining enrollment and the need for school closures or school consolidations. And there's–

Val: Mm-hmm

Andrew: –an opportunity in that. We’ve talked about in the past, in last season, point listeners back to the school closure conversation, all the harms that come from closing schools.

And we know that that almost always disproportionately impacts low-income schools, almost always disproportionately impacts Black and Brown schools.

Val: Mm-hmm.

Andrew: And there’s real harm that comes from school closures, and it's happening in a lot of places. And there are some places that are thinking about that as an opportunity to think about how we assign students to schools.

And so, I happen to know, I'm in Denver and know about what's going on in Denver, but there are other places where these things are happening. Denver is in the process of a district-wide boundary and enrollment zone review, redrawing boundaries.

And one of the stated goals that the school board put forward of that plan was to, decrease socioeconomic segregation, so.

Val: Nice.

Andrew: That is the, you know, at, at least a little bit of hope. I think one of my concerns about that is that they didn't prioritize the various factors that they are looking for when they're redrawing boundaries.

So, there are places where integration comes into conflict with things like transportation, or ease of access to after school programs, or whatnot.

Val: Hmm.

Andrew: And how you weigh those things out can really make a huge difference in how it shapes up. But that is–

Val: Right

Andrew: –happening. Winston-Salem/Forsyth County is doing their first big boundary redraw in 30 years. Their current plan projects 5% improvement in socioeconomic integration. It's not nothing.

Val: Okay.

Andrew: That's something.

Val: Great.

Andrew: They have declared it as a goal, and they are working towards it. You know, every, every little bit helps. We are not going to solve our school segregation problem in one fell swoop, but–

Val: No

Andrew: –everywhere we can make it better, we should make it better.

Val: That's right.

Andrew: And it seems like they are trying to do that. Charlotte-Mecklenburg is in a–

Val: Whoop, whoop!

Andrew: –comprehensive student assignment review. They have also stated one of their goals as reducing concentrations of poverty in high-need students. But again, you know, those goals sit alongside things like choice and efficiency and program access and stability.

Val: Mm-hm.

Andrew: And there's language in there, “to the extent possible.” Which, you know, is very reminiscent of the Brown II decision: “All deliberate speed.” Right?

Val: That's right.

Andrew: Montgomery County, Maryland. They're redrawing boundaries. Demographics are one of the factors. Evanston, Skokie, Illinois, District 65, they are in a similar process around closures and consolidation. They have an equity index that's involved in that.

And then some other districts where things are maybe bubbling up, Acton-Boxborough, Massachusetts, Portland, Oregon, Fairfax County, Virginia, Minneapolis. These are all places that there's at least some talk about redrawing boundaries or thinking about student assignment policies in those places, and there's an opportunity. So listeners, if you are in any of those places and you know what's going on, we would love to hear about it and love to learn more from you about what those things are.

And if you're in those places and you have an opportunity to go and speak, to show up.

Val: Mm-hmm.

Andrew: To go and fight for integration. To not just be part of the conversation, but to be weighted heavily in those conversations, that would be a great place to use some activation energy in these moments.

Val: Yeah. I do appreciate your framing as change as opportunity. Because it is, right? These boundary efforts could turn out poorly, or they could lead to the change that they seek. And so, I think it is important to, like, know when the ground is unsteady. We have an equal chance of it working out in our favor, if we work toward that effort.

Andrew: Right. And that requires those of us with the time, and the space, and the privilege to show up–

Val: That's right.

Andrew: –and demand those changes because,

Val: Oh my gosh.

Andrew: Ultimately, as you said, right, the system is working the way it was designed, but it was designed by people. And we can't throw up our hands–

Val: That's right.

Andrew: –and say “The system is the system and we're powerless,” because we are the system.

And so, where we show up and what we advocate for, and what we say is important to us, and the things we demand, are the things that help drive the system to–

Val: That's right

Andrew: –be more or less equitable, more or less just. And so, um, if you are in any of those particular places or anywhere else where these conversations are happening, we encourage you to show up and speak out in favor of integration. And then call and tell us about it!

Val: That’s right!

Andrew: Podcast at integratedschools.org. Speakpipe.com/integratedschools , We wanna know what's going on!

Val: And we are the system. That's sobering.

Andrew: Yeah.

Val: And inspiring.

Andrew: Yes. So, that's part of what we're gonna dig into this season. We're gonna be talking about the state of public education right now, these conversations around privatization and declining enrollment and school closures. We know that it's happening in so many places right now around the country. We're also gonna be talking about the state of integration work more broadly.

Val: Mm-hmm.

Andrew: Or, the lack of integration work. You know, the Department of Ed, in, in addition to all the other places that it was dismantled. There was fostering diversity grants that had been given out a couple years ago.

Those have all been ended. There's lots of places where that work has gone underground. You know, where districts maybe still care about it, but they're not saying it out loud for fear of reprisal from the federal government. And so we will be on the lookout for those stories, and would love to hear from listeners who have any of those stories.

And then we're gonna talk about what we do in this moment, because,

Val: Mm-hmm

Andrew: It is often, hard to know where to put our energy. Know lots of people who are angry about the state of the world, who want to do something and don't know exactly where to put that. So we're gonna spend some time this season talking about where to channel those energies.

Val: Mm-hmm

Andrew: You know, the, the pendulum has swung away from us in terms of fighting for integration and fighting for racial equity. We saw a huge rise in interest in our work in the wake of George Floyd's murder.

And the inevitable backlash that came from that pushed a lot of people in the other direction. And it's easy to look at the state of things right now and get overwhelmed.

But, what, what keeps me going is thinking about tilling the soil, like, creating the conditions when inevitably the pendulum does swing back in our direction, we are ready with good ideas. With a place to hold people, with community built. Integrated Schools now has almost 50 chapters or network contacts across the country.

Val: Awesome.

Andrew: People who are ready to jump in and jump into action when, when that time inev- inevitably comes.

And then the other piece of that is thinking about, okay, like, well, how do we get ready for when the pendulum swings? And then how do we think about our role in encouraging the pendulum to swing? And so I think–

Val: Right

Andrew: –a lot of our conversations this season will be, will be thinking about those two things and how we balance those things out.

Val: I'm excited about that part, because there's not a, a moment in history where we haven't dealt with challenges.

Andrew: Yeah.

Val: And it is easy to feel hopeless and want to just pause. And we do believe here that we can't fight every battle, that you deserve rest as much as you deserve to be in the fight. But, we gotta fight. [Val chuckles]

Andrew: Yeah.

Val: And so, understanding what that looks like. How it feels. What is it we are hoping for, the future we are hoping to create. I, I'm looking forward to dreaming with folks about those possibilities.

Andrew: Yeah! And that will be kind of the last bucket, uh, of themes for the season is, is this idea of dreaming of the future. We know that–

Val: Yeah!

Andrew: –so much of the education system is being dismantled right now, and one thing we can't do is try to rebuild it in exactly the same way.

As you said, the system is working as it was designed, and it is failing a number of people, and it is not living up to the promise that, uh, certainly I believe that public education needs to play if we are going to thrive as a multiracial democracy. And so, we're gonna take some time this season to really dream about what could be in the future and bring in some thinkers who are thinking about that from a number of different perspectives to help us imagine what could be on the other side of this so that we have a positive vision of something to work towards.

Val: That's right

Andrew: Rather than just trying to recreate the system as it was.

Val: So I'm ex- I'm excited about the different perspectives we're aiming to bring in. So we're, we're aiming to bring in voices that offer a cultural perspective that we may not have, right? So Indigenous voices. We would love to hear from caregivers who are just starting their school journey for their young, young children.

In addition to young people themselves, because they are the ones who are impacted by the systems in which they are learning. We're deeply curious to make sure that we are inclusive of families with special needs because, again, we know that the world that we're trying to create is for everyone. And we don't have to make it harder for people to participate in this so- society that we hope to create.

We should be making that easier. And also we are going to hear from Afrofuturists, right? Like,

Andrew: Yeah.

Val: Who have always been part of the conversation to dream about life outside of the present moment. Particularly for Black people, because, you know, historically… it's been a challenge!

So we had to think in the future. We had to be futurists in that way. And I'm excited about hearing these voices. I know that they will offer a vision that we just can't have on our own. And I think that's the beauty of the multiracial, multiethnic, multigenerational democracy that we want to live in.

We understand and we know the interconnectedness and how that makes such a difference, and… I don't know why people don't get excited about that!

Andrew: That's right!

Val: This is how we solve the problems, y'all! Get excited! [Val laughs]

Andrew: Get excited about dreaming about the future. That is, that is the goal. That is our bucket of hope for the season. We will drop in on that work throughout the season, as we confront the reality that is not always joyful, is not always full of hope. There are really stark realities in these–

Val: Yeah

Andrew: –moments. And, we also know that this is not the first time that we have had stark realities. This is not the first time that we have faced challenges. This is not the first time that institutions that we have relied on have not been able to serve in the ways that they should.

And the only way things get better is if we try to make them better. And so,

Val: That's right

Andrew: We’re gonna try to imagine some visions of the future that will keep us hopeful and keep us–

Val: Mm-hmm

Andrew: –fighting for the better future that our kids and our country deserves.

Val: And we're gonna, we're gonna tell stories. We're gonna, we're gonna tell stories of what's working and, and what's not. And we know that there are power in stories. There's power in, in having a human attached to those stories. And so, thank you, Andrew, for sharing your early days of teaching, and the impact of that. And what you're thinking about now as a result of that.

Andrew: We're gonna try to also hear from Integrated Schools folks who are out there doing this work all over the country.

Val: Mm-hmm.

Andrew: As I mentioned, we’ve got a bunch of chapters and networks around the country. We're gonna hear from some chapter leaders along the way. We're gonna hear from people who are inside the organization doing the work.

Val: I look forward to, to processing these things with you all year as we figure out how to do this better. All we have to do is not drop our link in the chain.

Andrew: As Loretta Ross told us.

Val: That's right. That's it. We don't have to fix it all. So, that's what we're gonna do.

Andrew: But we can't ignore our responsibility to hold our link in the chain, for sure.

Val: Nope

Andrew: That will be our work here this season, and listeners, we want you to be part of it. So, once again, we wanna hear your stories.

We wanna hear how you're thinking about these things. We wanna hear–

Val: Mm-hmm

Andrew: –the wins that you've had, the challenges you've faced. Are you in an integrating school and have had a great day and a terrible day? Send a–

Val: Yeah

Andrew: –story about either of them. We wanna hear it. You can email it to us if you prefer writing: podcast@integratedschools.org. You can record a voice memo. You can shoot us a video. You can,

Val: Yeah!

Andrew: Call us and leave us a voicemail at speakpipe.com/integratedschools . You can hit us up, direct message us on social media. Wherever it is, we want to hear about your stories because Val and I are, are two perspectives in a sea of perspectives.

Val: That's right.

Andrew: We try our best to keep an open mind and learn as we go, and we know that we have things that we will miss along the way, particularly now with both of us having older kids.

Val: Mm-hmm

Andrew: And so many listeners with young kids, we know that there are gaps. And so, we wanna hear from you.

Val: And for those of you who may be nervous, while we do love your audio messages and we’d love to put your voice on the podcast, you can just say, "Hey, I wanna talk about this, but please don't, please don't say it was me!" And we can do that too, right? Um, so don't be, don't be afraid.

Andrew: We can read your email, we can disguise your voice, we can hide–

Val: That's right.

Andrew: –identifying information.

Val: That's right!

Andrew: And, and we know that as, Val, as you said, that, that these conversations happening in community is where change comes from. And so, as you’re sharing the podcast with your parenting groups, as you're having podcast listening sessions or talking to somebody on the playground and an interesting story comes up, just let us know!

Val: That's right! This is gonna be, like, our best season yet.

Andrew: That is the goal.

Val: It's lucky number 13.

Andrew: Lucky number 13. And to do all of this exciting work, we need your support. So, if you have been a listener for a long time, if you're just now here, hopefully you appreciate the fact that Val and I don't try to sell you toothbrushes or underwear.

Val: That’s right.

Andrew: But this show is not free to produce, and we rely on your support! We have a Patreon, patreon.com/integratedschools, where you can donate to support this work. You can also get show notes and facilitation questions to host your own podcast listening club.

Val: Mm-hmm.

Andrew: You can join us for a happy hour once a month to talk about the podcast or whatever is going on in your life, or you can just feel good about supporting this important work that we are doing here every episode.

Val: That's right. We take 5, 10, 15, 20, and $25 million donations.

Andrew: That's right.

Val: Or anything underneath that. [Val chuckles]

Andrew: Yes.

Val: Whatever you got.

This, this work is vital, and one of the ways in which you can support it is with your dollars. I just had a wonderful conversation with Dr. Kei Hallman, and, and a phrase that she has coined is, "Support is a verb."

Andrew: Mm.

Val: And that really changed things for me. But “support is a verb” really talks about the ways in which you show up. And so we wanna thank you in advance for your support. And we hope that support also includes helping us fund this really important work.

Andrew: Part of supporting this work is also about sharing these conversations and engaging in these conversations in your local communities, and we are grateful for that as well.

Val: We're grateful for all the support.

Andrew: Well, Val, I am looking forward to season 13. I can't believe it has been five years that you've been with us. That the podcast–

Val: I can't either

Andrew: –has been around for eight years. You have been such a gift in my life to get to engage in these conversations with you every episode is,

Val: Same, friend.

Andrew: Makes me a better person, makes me a deeper thinker. Makes me a more empathetic, caring person. And definitely is going to make me a better teacher.

Val: That's right! [Val chuckles]

Andrew: I am grateful for it.

Val: It's showtime! [brisk clapping hands]

Andrew: Here we go

Val: You ‘bout to be in the Val bootcamp, okay?

Andrew: I'm ready.

Val: That's right!

Andrew: Always an honor to be in this with you as I try to know better and do better.

Val: Until next time.