S12E4 – Using Stories to Inspire Change

S12E4 - Using Stories to Inspire Change

Andrew: Welcome to the Integrated Schools podcast. I'm Andrew, a White dad from Denver.

Val: And I'm Val, a Black mom from North Carolina.

Andrew: And this is “Using Stories to Inspire Change.” Val, we've got a special treat today. I was very fortunate to get to attend the Color of Education conference last month in Raleigh, North Carolina. And, we're gonna share some audio that I captured while I was there because it is a, it's a special conference.

Val: I really enjoy when you are able to go out into the field because whenever we can hear from folks I think it really adds value to the stories that we are trying to share here on the show.

Andrew: I know it is a conference you have been to in the past. I flew out to Raleigh a couple of weeks ago and had my microphone and walked around the Color of Education conference and got to talk to a whole bunch of people and I was blown away by the number of people there, by just the atmosphere. It really felt like a special place. Lots of community there. People who know each other well. People it seems like have been coming for years and years and just a really great environment.

Val: I couldn't be there because of a family conflict, and last year was the first time that I went and like you said it seemed like it was a place where many people have gathered often and they come back and it’s a sort of reunion. And I'm sure that is absolutely true, but also as a first timer, I felt right at home. Um, I felt in community with other educators and community leaders who valued many of the values that we express here on the show as well. And so if you are looking for a conference, if you care about education, equity, access, justice, um, this is certainly a conference we wanna encourage you to attend.

Andrew: Yeah. The Dudley Flood Center for Educational Equity and Opportunity puts it on every year, and the theme this year for the conference was ‘Preserving our legacy, the power in the stories we carry.’ And as someone who cares a lot about educational equity and about storytelling, to be in this conference center full of people who were committed to both of those things was, was really exciting.

Val: I think something that I am often surprised by is, uh, when people don't believe that their stories matter, right? That their experiences don't matter, that they have to be some level up, some special person in order to tell their story for it to actually make a difference. And we've learned just from listening to people, how individual stories really can shake people's worldview and have them open up to things that they didn't realize were realities for other people.

Andrew: Yeah, so to get to, to get to chat with people, and, you know, there were some people who I walked up to with a microphone and they quickly turned and walked away. But there were a number of people who were willing to spend a couple minutes with me just telling me whatever story they were carrying into that space, and put together an edit of some of those. And hope listeners enjoy it.

Val: Yeah.

Andrew: Take a listen?

Val: I would love that.

Andrew: Alright.

[THEME MUSIC]

Deanna Townsend-Smith: Welcome to the 2025 Color of Education. Hello, good people. Woo! It's so good to have you here today.

Andrew: That's Deanna Townsend Smith. I'm sitting in a large conference room in the North Carolina State McKimmon Conference Center in Raleigh, North Carolina. The room is filled with over 600 educators from across the state and the country… teachers, administrators, researchers, policymakers, students. A beautifully diverse group across race and age, all committed to achieving racial equity and eliminating racial disparities in education.

Deanna Townsend-Smith: So as we start our time here together today, I really want to invite us into a moment of vulnerability. My mentor to my right over here, Dr. Flood, he often pushes me to tell my story. I have not revealed all of it, not even to him until now. What we know to be true is that to do this work, the real work that reaches beyond policies and programs and to the hearts of who we are, we must be willing to share not only our ideas, but our truths. That's where the power of connection begins.

So today I want you to buckle up because I'm gonna tell my story and my truths. I am the great, great, great granddaughter of grandparents who were not allowed to own or buy land, but to keep the family together, they worked in fields. They birthed my grandparents who would go on to buy land and build a house because the bank told them no. These same grandparents instilled in those they birthed, that when you have family and faith, you can move mountains. My grandparents and great-grandparents taught me to see no in the face of injustice as an opportunity instead of an obstacle, especially if it is right and just.

Andrew: This was unlike any conference that I've ever been to. From the moment I arrived it felt like a family reunion. There was a sense of comfort and real presence in the air. Folks were there to get the full experience and to be in community together. Dr. Townsend Smith was setting the stage. She went on.

Deanna Townsend-Smith: So a little bit more of my story, which is a little bit hard for me to tell here today, is that I was born to parents who became bought into Christian nationalism and who ripped away from me the power to gain knowledge from schooling because their belief system supported removing their children from schools because of supposed negative influences. So when I advocate for public education for every student, it is because I know what it means to have that right taken away. I truly know that public schools matter and we must interrogate the underbelly and throughline between Christian nationalism and the policies and practice that are constructed to make it seem that public education and that public schools are not necessary.

Andrew: To lay out her story so honestly, in front of so many, in this moment in our country, felt like an act of resistance. And it spoke to the theme of the conference, ‘Preserving our legacy, the power in the stories we carry.’ She continued.

Deanna Townsend-Smith: Additionally, because my biological parents were so bought into their religious beliefs, I learned early on the difference between faith and religion. My grandmother was a woman of faith, so she used a pulpit to push for a place for women to preach, even though she was often told it was not her place to be.

But see, she instilled in me, “Girl, you can't run from your destiny.” So while I may not use a pulpit, I use my platform to galvanize movements as that's my superpower. It's a part of my ancestry. So resisting injustice, fighting for what is right in the least of those, despite the costs, runs in my veins.

Each of us carry a story, a story of family, of place, of triumphs and struggles. Alone, those struggles remind us of where we have been, but when we weave them together, they become something even greater. A collective story, a story of resistance, a story of courage, a story of hope, and it is this collective story that has always been and must continue to be the driver of change. We know that equity must remain at the center of all we do. Equity is the work of creating a world where the story you carry does not determine your access to education, dignity or possibility.

Andrew: There is power in the stories we carry, but equity means those stories don't determine our possibilities. I found this idea very profound. The conference focused on four key tenets to guide the work of equity.

Deanna Townsend-Smith: I want to ask each of you to hold four foundational tenets today. Those are trust, truth, courage, and power. I want you to trust in each other and in the wisdom we hold collectively. Truth in telling our stories as they are without erasure. Courage in facing the challenges of this moment because even though they're there, and even when it feels heavy, we have the power. The power not to dominate, but to transform, to liberate, and to create opportunity.

Our ancestors are with us in this space today. Every time we tell our stories, we honor them. Every time we step into courage to speak truth, we extend their legacy. They hand us not just history, but a roadmap for action. So today I invite you to listen differently, share bravely, connect deeply, and leave here ready to act with clarity, with purpose, and with the knowledge that the stories we carry are not only our past, but our blueprint for the future.

I am Dr. Deanna Townsend Smith. I have the privilege and honor of leading the Dudley Flood Center for Educational Equity and Opportunity. {crowd cheers} I wanna welcome you to the 2025 Color of Education Summit. Let's preserve our legacy by sharing our stories and creating a strong movement that cannot and will not be destroyed because we won't let it.

Andrew: Dr. Townsend Smith had set the tone for the day. She invited a large group of people into the space, modeled storytelling with vulnerability, and asked everyone to show up as their full selves committed to the work of educational equity. I caught up with her a bit later to ask about the conference, this theme and why she cares about this work.

Deanna Townsend-Smith: So the theme is Preserving our Legacy, the Power, and the Stories We Carry. It's important that we talk about this in this moment in time because of all the erasure that is happening across our nation. We can't let that continue. And so this is a space where we can grow as a community to create the world that we want to see.

Andrew: You care about justice. You care about educational equity. That's what this work is focused on. Why, who poured that into you?

Deanna Townsend-Smith: I care about those things because I didn't always have them. And I never want anyone else to experience that. And so I use my platform to fight for what I want this world to be for my child.

Andrew: This conference brings together hundreds of people from not just North Carolina, but all over. What's special about this space?

Deanna Townsend-Smith: This work started with community saying, we need to make sure that we keep race central to everything that we do. And so from that work, the Flood Center was born and therefore this space is different because community came together to lead this work. And so you have everybody here, those who are most impacted by it every day, which are students, to policy makers, to teachers, to principals. Anyone can attend this event and I think that that's what makes it different.

Andrew: Um, you open to the event by sharing very personal stories. People are sharing their, their stories, the things that guide them. What's the value in sharing those stories, in community coming together and hearing those stories and then sharing those stories themselves?

Deanna Townsend-Smith: I think we often hide from pain. We get quiet when things get hard, but if we were to share our stories, we would see that many of us are going through the same thing. Maybe if we share a story, we can create a movement to make a change.

Andrew: Yeah. It's a beautiful environment and it's a beautiful, um, feeling here in the building. If this does what you'd hope it will do, people have the chance to come together and share their stories. What does the other side look like?

Deanna Townsend-Smith: The other side looks like we are no longer paralyzed by fear. We have the courage to speak our truths. We have the courage to fight for justice, and we have the power to create policy.

Andrew: Thank you. Thank you for doing it. Thank you for putting the conference on. It's beautiful.

Deanna Townsend-Smith: Thank you. Thank you so much.

Andrew: So you can guess I am pretty fired up at this point, a conference full of people who care about educational equity and storytelling. I mean, this is my happy place. After Dr. Townsend Smith's welcome, there was an amazing keynote by a Black scuba diver named Tara Roberts from National Geographic, who's been mapping the wrecks of lost slave ships. Her story was incredible. She actually has a podcast about it. Um, there'll be a link in the show notes. It's really amazing, incredible storytelling. And then it was time for breakout sessions.

So as people filed out of the main conference room, there were snacks around, there was music playing, these incredible guitar players. The vibe was great. In addition to that, there was a small hallway dedicated to storytelling and hanging in that hallway was a large textile broken into four sections labeled with these tenants, guiding the conference, truth, justice, courage and power. And next to it was a table with small squares of fabric markers and safety pins. And that is where I met Latonya Patillo.

Latonya Patillo: Latonya Patillo. I am a board member of the Public School Forum of North Carolina, and I am a creator of the textile, Tell Your Story, that we are collaborating on today.

Andrew: Amazing. And what's that project? You're making a quilt?

Latonya Patillo: Yes, I am making a quilt, a textile that is community based. It speaks to four tenets, truth, justice, courage, and power. And the ask is that you share your story via the textile. So it will be a large piece that kind of tells the story of the collective and how those tenets matter for us.

Andrew: Why do you care about textiles? Why use that as a medium for telling stories?

Latonya Patillo: Well, it's a direct connection to my grandmother, uh, who was a quilter. Textiles, stand the test of time, right? So across generations, throughout history, textiles help tell the story in a number of ways. And it's important to me.

Andrew: So 20 years from now, 50 years from now, a hundred years from now, somebody looks back on this quilt. What do they, what do they take away from that?

Latonya Patillo: They'll see, uh, the many ways that truth, justice, courage, and power showed up in the world, um, they'll hopefully see my hand. And whether they know me or not is not important. They know what the bigger idea is. So 50 years from now, hopefully this textile will still be around holding on and communicating, you know, what the world was like, and hopefully serving as a beacon for those who are there after us in the future.

Andrew: That's beautiful. Thank you very much.

Latonya Patillo: Thank you.

Andrew: So throughout the day, people would stop by, they'd grab a square of fabric and draw pictures, or write even small stories or words that were important and pin them on the quilt for Miss Patillo to stitch together after the event. I caught up with Ms. Tiece Ruffin just before she pinned her square to the quilt.

Tiece Ruffin: Hi, Tiece Ruffin, Asheville, North Carolina. My square says justice at the top, and then it has regal relevant education grows all learners. It says at Pisca View Apartments. In Asheville in 2021.

Andrew: Okay, so tell me the story of the apartments in 2021.

Tiece Ruffin: So, it was during the time of COVID and it was an inclusive approach to figure out how to support kids in a community pod in this community housing area. So we said, how can the women who live in the community offer an inclusive learning space when school was not in session.

So this allowed kids to go to their local community center, have community mamas there, supporting them in virtual learning, but also supplementing or providing complimentary learning. And then having other community members like myself to say, how can we support kids? We want them to know that they're regal and royal and they can succeed in education. We want them to thrive. But during, you know, February, 2021, when our whole world was just flipped over, turned upside down, and people were trying to figure out what to do, this community-based collaboration seemed optimal.

Andrew: Yeah.

Tiece Ruffin: We weren't waiting for people to come from outside of that community to support those learners. It took so many entities collaborating, but on the front lines with those community mamas that lived in that public housing community that were there for their children to make sure their kids had a learning space.

Andrew: That's beautiful. What lessons did you pull from that? Because it feels like we're also in a bit of a time of upheaval right now. Certainly now there are things that we want kids to learn that are not being taught in school. Were there lessons that you learned from that about what education could look like?

Tiece Ruffin: Oh, absolutely. Education cannot be confined to the four walls of a building, of a school, of a single institution. It is an ecosystem that takes all of us, and people should never negate or doubt the community members themselves.

Of not seeing them from a deficit lens. Right. But seeing that they have cultural capital, human capital, and assets. That the things that they were doing with the kids, they did not have a teaching license. They weren't a licensed social worker, a licensed counselor, but they were mothers who had given birth to children, who lived in this public housing community who were collaborating with university people, and others to say, we have what we need to make sure our kids can thrive and soar, and we don't have to have 50 million credentials behind our names to do so. We don't have to look for others to come save us and help us. How does the community turn inward and figure out we have what we need, so let's put our heads together to create something that will work for our children, for them to soar.

And I think that's what we are seeing now with all that's going on is, yes, we can definitely depend on outside support. We saw that with Hurricane Helena Asheville. We just had our one year anniversary, but we also know that when our power went out for nine days when we didn't have water and we didn't have electricity, my community wasn't waiting around for the police or the fire from other states to come in, like we were literally in our own neighborhoods, like there's a stream down there, everybody go get buckets and let's get water from the stream to flush our toilets. While our power is out and our food is spoiling, people were bringing their food from their different houses to put on the grill. That was before the outside help got here. So communities should not be always looked upon as if other people have to solve challenges for them.

Andrew: Mm-hmm. Right. I think, yeah, especially in this moment where relying on the, the power structures, particularly the federal government power structure is not going to get us what we need. I think about something that Dr. Ewing said in her, in her fireside chat yesterday about the difference between learning and education. That learning we've been doing since there have been humans. We have always learned, we have always found ways to teach and to, to, you know, instill knowledge in each other. And then we have this institution of education that, you know, in some ways serves and in some ways doesn't. And it sounds like this was a great opportunity to say like, oh, look, the institution of education is failing us, we can continue to learn.

Tiece Ruffin: Yes. You nailed it. That was the key part. That we have these inequities, disparities, but how do we say as ourselves through community based collaboration, how do we create opportunities for our kids to still learn? And they learned a lot beyond what they would have in the typical school curriculum. Because with this regal framework of community-based learning and inclusive excellence for kids of color in that public housing community, they were taught about self-concept and their own racial identity.

Andrew: Mm-hmm.

Tiece Ruffin: And excellence from that and realizing, yes, you are a genius, you are excellence. Like you have this knowledge and some of that they had never been taught before. How do you draw upon that knowledge and that history to know that you too are excellence and greatness? And you could strive to be great. You don't have to accept the stereotype. Right? That you're, you know, this person of color from this small mountain town in Asheville, North Carolina, where the achievement gap is the fifth largest in the United States between Black and White students. We were dispelling that. Like that is the truth. That is fact. But having students know that fact, but reject that and not accept that they can't be great. That they can't learn, that they can't excel, that they needed to just do what, be oppressed and disenfranchised because of these great inequities.

Andrew: And it took removing the structures of education to say, okay, wait, now if you're leaving it up to us, what do we actually want to teach? What do we wanna teach and how do we, we don't wanna teach them Christopher Columbus, we don't want to teach them a story of victimhood, of oppression, of harm. We want to teach them that they have in them greatness.

Tiece Ruffin: Yes. I get so passionate and excited. I am not a native Ashevillian, but I've been in Asheville since 2010 and when I moved there, my sons were two and four, and so they've gone through the Asheville City Schools Public School system since then, they both now have graduated. And that is the, the, the legacy for them of, being conquerors and not being typecast by any statistic that you can't do something or that you're incompetent and that you're incapable.

How do you see yourself still as someone who's able to thrive and soar and have excellence, and genius, not from just the negative parts, right? Of all the stereotypes and the stigma and thinking, well, I'm Black and I'm from Asheville, I can't do anything. I'm not gonna be anything great. There are no ceilings. There's endless possibilities, and there's definitely no can’ts.

Andrew: Why? Why do you care? Who poured that into you?

Tiece Ruffin: Definitely my home environment. I say I had a strong family and faith-based network growing up in Washington DC, who instilled that into me. I'm a first generation college student and, as a person who grew up in inner city Washington, DC, who is a gun violence survivor, I was shot in my leg, um, when I was 10 years old by a nine millimeter gun.

But my family and my church growing up, I've never had people place limits. Only society telling me, well, you're first generation, you're a gun violence survivor. You experienced poverty. Um, you grew up in a low income space. These are all the statistics, but the people around me have said, you are never a statistic. You're more than that. And so that's where that resides. That fire is in me, as you see. I got passionate there and yeah. Um, Thank you.

Andrew: Thank you for sharing your story. Thank you.

(breakouts - lunch)

Andrew: After the morning sessions came lunch, it was truly a beautiful sight to see a huge room full of 600 people all breaking bread together, all sharing a meal, sharing their stories, and building community.

(audio of lunch)

Andrew: Throughout the day, as I wandered about, amazed by the energy and the content of the conversations, I found a few other people who were willing to share their stories with me.

Valencia Abbott: (stories from attendees) My name is Valencia Abbott. I am a social studies history teacher at Rockingham Early College High School in Wentworth, North Carolina.

Andrew: Amazing. And why are you here at Color of Ed Conference?

Valencia Abbott: I am the only Black teacher on staff at my school. And in the district that I teach in, there are students that could go all the way K through 12 and not have a single teacher of color. I grew up having Black teachers. And, I saw the change with my own daughters. They still had Black teachers, but not as many as I have. But it wasn't until I became a teacher, which I didn't become a teacher until I was nearly 40. I know, and I'm 61.

Andrew: You're 61. Get outta here.

Valencia Abbott: Yeah, I like that. See, you got, you gotta keep that part. {laughs}

Andrew: I won't cut that. Don't worry. The theme of the conference is the power of the stories we carry. What's a story that you're carrying with you in this space today?

Valencia Abbott: The story that I want to share is that I was named the 2025 National History Teacher of the Year.

Andrew: Congratulations.

Valencia Abbott: To be chosen as the National History Teacher of the Year, especially as a Black female teacher in that role, I'm hoping I'm encouraging others to follow me into the classroom. Because, our students need to see a reflection of who they are. So not just color in all elements of their life, that they have somebody that they, uh, can connect to in some way. So I'm really humbled and honored by this, uh, it's been a whirlwind the last couple of weeks. But, to get an award for being a history nerd, I think is the most… {laughs} I mean, see, that's why I was reading all the time.

Andrew: How, how are you thinking about teaching history today in the current political climate?

Valencia Abbott: The same way that I've always started. I show up authentically as me. I show up to tell my students the truth. I show up to have them make some kind of connections to the curriculum, to the content. I show up to be the best teacher that I can be on that day, and that's not changing. I'm going to still show up and do what I need to do for my kids.

Andrew: That's beautiful. Thank you. Thank you for doing it. Thank you for sharing your story. Congratulations.

Valencia Abbott: Thank you. Like I said, I'm really humbled about that and that, um, I get to show my students, you know what reading and learning history can get you.

Jodine Simpson: Jodine Simpson. I'm actually doing a Masters in school administration, and so I'm just here to learn more about equity in education and how do I drive that forward.

Andrew: Why do you care about equity in education?

Jodine Simpson: Well, I'm Jamaican. Let's, let's start there. And when I came here, everything seemed so different to me. And at first I started at a school that was very privileged, I must say that. And then a couple years after I went to another school that, what I would term as less fortunate. And then I started to think more of why is it that those kiddos had more opportunities than my kids. And so that has really driven my work into how can I be more equitable in my classroom? How could I have more of a culturally responsive classroom?

Andrew: That’s beautiful. The theme here is the power of the stories we carry. Is there a story that you carry that helps sustain you through this work?

Jodine Simpson: I do carry a story. I came from Jamaica and coming here it was, it was a cultural shock for me and there was a lot of things that I had to learn. And so I try to make sure that my classroom is culturally responsive. So I think of myself, how can I bridge the gap to help those who were here before me, and those who are coming after I've been here.

Andrew: What, what do you hope your students will take away from having had you as a teacher?

Jodine Simpson: In my classroom, I try to build holistic learners, and to be honest, the things that I always want them to live with is knowing that there's a purpose for you in the world, but it starts right now. You are writing what you need. You're writing your own story right now. It starts from here. So I've just always led with the motivation piece and hope that they can have a growth mindset as they work through challenges and be able to empower and uplift each other in my classroom and possibly translate that to the world.

Andrew: That's beautiful. Thank you. Thank you for doing that work. Thank you for sharing.

Jodine Simpson: Thank you so much.

Anitra: Anitra. I'm an elementary school principal. Myy community could be considered marginalized in some areas. Lots of high poverty situations, but students and people at the school who really care about the community. And we wanna make sure that we support our people. Like, we wanna make sure that our community knows that we care about them and we do all the things to improve everything that they're doing.

Andrew: Why do you care about that?

Anitra: Education has been it for marginalized groups. It's the thing that's changed their situation. It's, you know, helped them to move out of situations. It's just been like the, what they say, the great equalizer. So just hold that idea of education is that one step forward.

Andrew: One of the themes of the conference here is the power of the stories we carry. Is there a story that you carry about education, about justice that sustains you, particularly, you know, is a difficult time to be in education?

Anitra: My grandma was a very intelligent woman. Valued education, eighth grade education. Very much a voracious reader. Just circumstances did not allow her to, you know, continue. So the stories of the people before us, like how much value they placed on education, being responsible and, um, making sure to honor the things that you know, they may not have been able to achieve.

Andrew: Thank you for doing that. Thank you for sharing.

Anitra: I appreciate it.​

Andrew: There were also a number of amazing partner organizations with tables set up in the main conference room, and I wanted to chat with a few of them to learn about their work.

Jennifer Rifkin: I'm Jennifer Rifkin and I'm with the Public School Forum of North Carolina. I'm here to, um, connect with other educators and to share the resources that we have. Um, and hope that they invite us into their spaces so that we can present on policy, and engage their communities and eventually, meet with their representatives to advocate for, really important issues that are impacting their schools.

Andrew: What are some of those things that are coming up now, you know, in this, in this particularly charged time, um, where public education is under attack? What sort of things are really surfacing from all across the state?

Jennifer Rifkin: School finance is impacting educators of course, because, um, their salaries have not been increased. So when you talk about teacher retention, there's a lot of challenges there. You know, we're doing a decent job in recruiting teachers now. I think our university systems have these great programs and are doing excellent jobs recruiting, but teachers don't wanna stay in the classroom because, aside from the pay. Like they don't go into the job for the pay, but there are these, um, conditions in which they're forced to work in, that really impact their job.

Aside from that, I think there's just a lot of local politics happening that impact the pedagogy in classrooms, what teachers feel they can and cannot teach, and how they can teach it. Right down to the books that they're allowed to have in their classrooms. Um, sort of this big brother situation happening. And so it's really important that we engage families and we do invite them into our schools. It's also important to respect, uh, the professionals that our teachers are.

Andrew: Talk a little more about that balance. So, you know, if you're a parent who cares about your kid getting sort of a broad, honest education, what's a good way to show up in support of that? Like you said, acknowledging the expertise that exists, but also being supportive and using your voice.

Jennifer Rifkin: I think that's kind of the foundation of this conference. How do you connect with people and work together towards a similar goal? So teachers and parents alike want their kids to be successful. So let's come together, let's ask each other questions. Let's come from a place of understanding so that we can move forward and support each other.

I coached teachers for many years and I have told them, you know, put down the talking points, put down the text messages. Put down the emails, call them up, have a conversation, human to human, and I bet you 10 outta 10 times, you're going to have an even better relationship than you could have ever imagined. Because at the end of the day we all want what's best for our kids. And I believe our families want that too. And sometimes it's just a lack of understanding that causes a bit of friction. But I know that that can be overcome, and I've seen it happen over and over again.

Andrew: One of the themes of the conference is the power of stories, the stories that we carry. Is there a story that sticks with you from your work here that sort of highlights the ways that it can work?

Jennifer Rifkin: I started my career in Nash Rocky Mount at a middle school. And, um, I remember introducing poetry to my students and them immediately thinking like, this is gonna be the worst thing in the world. And by the end of it, we had a slam poetry club, we had published poems, we had community members and parents all, smashed into a library, like there wasn't enough room, and they're all in there hearing their children slam poetry, either individually or with groups and the kids leaving feeling so empowered by the whole process of writing the poem, of being able to speak it, being brave enough to speak it in such a way that captures and engage the audience in their stories. And, um, having that support of their peers, of their community, um, was really important to them.

Andrew: That's a beautiful story. Thank you for sharing it. Thank you for all the work you're doing.

Jennifer Rifkin: Thank you.

Heather Coons: My name is Heather Koons and our organization is Public Schools First, North Carolina. We're an advocacy organization promoting public schools and full funding for public schools thro​​ghout the state and nation.

Andrew: It's a, it's a, a tough time for that work and very important work. What are you seeing in North Carolina that makes that work feel particularly relevant right now?

Heather Coons: Well, for the past 15 years, our, uh, legislature has systematically underfunded our public schools, and it's getting worse and worse than just last year with vouchers becoming universal, it's just very, very striking how anti-public schools legislators are defunding our public schools and how they're putting money into the private sector.

I'll just give an example, in Wake County, just in the last school year, private schools in Wake County received more than $56 million in voucher. That's tuition payments from the state of North Carolina. Since the voucher program started in 2014, Wake County private schools have received more than $105 million. And imagine if that money had gone to public schools, the funding we need to better support our programs and our teachers and give them the salaries that they deserve. So it's really bad in North Carolina right now. But it's our legislators. They're making these decisions. We can reverse those decisions if we can show them what's happening.

Andrew: If someone's listening and they're like, oh, that's outrageous, a hundred million dollars. That could be much better spent not, you know, not subsidizing wealthy families to send their kids to private school like they were doing already. What does it look like to show up in support of that?

Heather Coons: So the first line would be just talk to your legislators and your elected officials, because they're the ones who are making these decisions. And then start getting the data and find out what's really happening to your tax dollars.

So for example, in the case of the voucher programs, in contrast to public schools that have public accountability for performance, for where the money is spent for contracts, there's none of that, none in private schools. So we don't see where the dollars are going. They don't have to accept all students. So these public funds are going to very exclusionary private schools, but yet we're all paying for it.

So the lawmakers are the ones who can make the change, and we really encourage people to reach out to them and say, hold on a minute, public dollars need to go to public schools. They serve all people. All students, and if we properly fund them, then we will get the great results that we deserve and that our kids deserve.

Andrew: Yeah. Why do you care about this?

Heather Coons: Well, just personally, I've seen the public and private sector. I went through public schools myself and my kids did as well, and I know how wonderful they are and how much I benefited and my kids benefited from being in a very wonderful learning environment with people who are not exactly like us. And so to your point about integrated schools, I'm a hundred percent a believer in that and I think our logo says Public schools unite us. And I believe wholeheartedly in that, that when we come together from different parts of life, from different backgrounds, different socioeconomic levels, that we learn to appreciate what we bring to the table and it makes us all better. And especially now in this country, we need that desperately.

Andrew: Thank you. Thank you for the work you're doing.

Heather Coons: Thank you for your podcast. I love it.

Gavin Gabriel: I’m Gavin Gabriel, I'm with Profound Gentlemen. We are a nonprofit organization headquartered in North Carolina to support, uh, male educators of color across the nation. We hope to support them enough to keep them in the classroom, especially in the first five.

Andrew: That's where you see the most drop off. I mean, their numbers are low to start with, and then if they get in the door, they're probably leaving within the first five years.

Gavin Gabriel: Indeed. Especially now. So, um, even just getting them through the education program at their universities is increasingly complicated. So we start at the university level and, and carry them through their first five. Male educators of color specifically represent less than 5% combined. Black male educators represent about 1.3% across the the nation.

Andrew: What sorts of things work to keep male educators of color in the building?

Gavin Gabriel: Yeah, so, we have shown that community works. Folks need to know that they're not alone, that they're not crazy, that they're not experiencing these things by themselves. And that community encourages them to keep moving.

Andrew: Thank you. Thank you for the work you're doing.

Rebecca Trammell: Rebecca Trammell, and we launched the I Am Leandro Project to make Leandro a household name and voting issue in the state of North Carolina.

Andrew: Gimme the like 30 second version of the Leandro case and then what you would like to see happen now?

Rebecca Trammell: So Leandro started in 1994 when five rural counties sued the state of North Carolina on the basis that they couldn't deliver on the promise of our constitution, which is to provide a sound basic education to every child. Since then, there's been four distinct verdicts in favor of Leandro.

In the process of all this, the courts ordered the state to release $5.54 billion to effectuate the Leandro comprehensive remedial plan. That money was never released and now it's time to get it out of the courtroom into the classroom, and that's up to the people of North Carolina.

The state of North Carolina owes $5.54 billion to our public schools. And I believe that even though Leandro has prevailed in the courts of law, it's time to take this case to the court of public opinion. And I believe that the people of North Carolina know what's good for their children and we prioritize that.

Andrew: If people are fired up about this, if they're angry, what can they do?

Rebecca Trammell: Find us at iamleandro.org.

Andrew: Amazing. Thank you so much. Keep up the good work.

Rebecca Trammell: Thank you.

Andrew: The day flew by and as things were wrapping up, I was moved by the stories that I had heard, inspired by the sense of community and well-nourished both in body and in spirit. And I wanted to know what people had enjoyed most about the conference.

Andrew: What's your name?

Hayden: Hayden.

Andrew: What's your name?

Faith: Faith.

Andrew: Will you tell me what the best part of Color of Ed was?

Hayden: Um, well we were in one of the breakout rooms about Brown versus Board of Education and we got to actually speak to people that, you know, were around during that time and in their adolescence and how that experience was for them of desegregating schools. And it was just definitely really interesting and a good insight.

Faith: It was Ms. Annie Harget and David, Dave Mason Jr. I believe, and I feel like his story, the hotdog story they call it, I feel like it deeply impacted me because he was saying he was five years old and he went, I think to try on clothes with his mom and in a separate part of town 'cause they weren't allowed to try on clothes in this one part. And he said in the basement it was this hot dog store. And he went down there and he said he got a lot of weird looks, but he didn't know it was wrong 'cause he was only five. And his mom had came down there and she was like, we've been looking for you.

And he was like, oh, I just wanted a hot dog. And she was like, you can't sit here. And he said, ‘Why?’ And she said, ‘because you're colored.’ And he said, ‘what does that mean?’ Like, what is that? And yeah. And so basically that was his mom, trying to explain to him what racism was because he said at the time she was considered a light-skinned negro, so he was confused because he was like, I'm this color and you're this color, so are you colored? And it was like, it was an amazing story.

Andrew: Awesome. Uh, will you come back next year?

Hayden: Most definitely.

Faith: Most definitely. Yeah. I liked it. Yeah, for sure.

Andrew: Thank you very much.

Andrew: What's your name?

Shelby: My name is Shelby.

Andrew: Can I ask you what the best part of Color of Ed is?

Shelby: For me, the best part is the preparation that goes into this summit and seeing all educators from all walks of life, from all parts of the state and across the nation come together to talk about the future of our children.

Andrew: That's beautiful.

Andrew: What's your name?

Karina: Karina.

Andrew: And you?

Alecia: Alecia.

Andrew: What was the best part of the whole day?

Alecia: Probably the food.

Andrew: The food was good. The food was good.

Karina: I like the opportunity of like getting to learn about different stories from different people and different demographics of people.

Andrew: Yeah.

Alecia: Um, I'm currently a first year student at NC State. I'm studying education, this is my third time at this conference, but I'd say being here with like actual intentionality about what I wanna work towards. I ran into my middle school assistant principal and I connected with her and she's gonna give me an opportunity to talk to some students at her school. So I feel like coming here and really having like a broad variety of opportunities and networking spaces is really great.

Andrew: That's awesome. Thank you very much. Appreciate it.

Andrew: It was an amazing day. I met lovely people. I heard inspiring stories, and really felt a part of a community of people who were committed to equity and who were using their stories to create change. From trying stories of overcoming obstacles, facing hardship, fighting for justice, to celebratory stories of recognizing greatness, it is clear that color of Ed is a special place. And as everything came to a close, the amazing Dr. Deanna Townsend Smith left us with these powerful words.

Deanna Townsend-Smith: As we prepare to close out this year's Color of Education Summit, I just want to remind you that your story holds legacy and power. I wanna take a moment to honor the work we have done together. We have listened with open hearts. Shared with vulnerability and leaned into the power of connection. We have remembered that our individual stories, when they are woven together, they create a collective story. And that collective story is one of resistance, of courage, of hope.

I don't know if you feel it, but our ancestors are with us. Their wisdom echoes and the truths we have shared. And their courage fuels the roadmap for action we now must carry forward. There's a challenge before us and that challenge is clear. We have to turn our story into strategy and that strategy into transformation.

I want to leave you with action steps, to ensure that what we have experienced here does not end. Let truth, trust, courage, and power, guide your daily work. Ask yourself, how do these principles live in my classroom, my school, my community, my leadership? Turn your story into action. Stories open doors. Action walks us through them. Take the story you carry, the challenges and the victories, and use it to fuel, to advocate, to organize, to teach, and to lead with equity at the center. Because equity is always right.

If we lead and take these steps, the legacy we are preserving will not only live in our memory, but in the lived experiences of generations to come. Thank you for your participation, for your support, and for showing up fully, for speaking your truths and for carrying the power of this summit back into your communities. Together we are the color of education, and we are writing the next chapter of this collective story and it begins now.

[THEME MUSIC]

Andrew: So Val, what’d you think?

Val: One, I love all of their stories and as a lifelong educator from a family of educators there's so much of what they were sharing that feels really important and that we've actually spent time digging into in detail in previous episodes like the power and promise of Black educators for all students, understanding our own family legacies and how they have led to us being where we are right now in these moments. And I realize one thing that I don't think you and I have ever like really talked about is your definition of equity. And so I'm wondering when you think about equity and education are you thinking like equal access or equal outcomes or something different? A blend? A mix?

Andrew: I think about educational equity as being about giving everybody what they need to have the opportunity to thrive. I think an education system that creates the environment for kids to be able to show up as their whole selves and be able to find the things that drive them and inspire them so that they can thrive in whatever way that makes the most sense for them. I think that's what comes to mind for me.

Val: So it feels really individualized for you. So if you wanted to become a sound engineer and I wanted to become a museum educator, everything is in place so that we have the outcome of our own individualized dreams.

Andrew: The doors are open. This idea that Dr. Townsend-Smith talked about in her opening remarks where she says, you know, equity is the work of creating a world where the story you carry doesn't determine your access to education, dignity, or possibility. That feels like a great definition of equity to me.

Val: And and I think I asked because I think I've been in places where people are like, ‘Hey we gave you the opportunity. You were allowed to go to school, and you did not take advantage of the opportunity that we gave everyone.’ You know, they believe in educational equity but it might stop at the front door Right. It might stop when we say, ‘okay you, you have access to this place. I should not be responsible for anything else because the rest of it involves your actions, your personal responsibility, you should figure it out from there because I got you to the door.’

Andrew: Yeah, I don’t think we can stop at access. Right. Access to spaces that are harmful to your soul is not actually equitable. Right. Having access to a school where you don't actually feel like you belong, where you don't actually feel like you are given the tools or the access to curriculum.

We've talked lots about the, you know, ways that segregation shows up within schools. If you have access to the building, but you don't have access to the AP classes. If you have access to the building, but you don't have access to a teacher who inspires you, who believes in you, who invests in you, like is that, is that really access?

Val: You know, I'm, I'm putting that in my mind along with what I think about in terms of what it's a highly rated school. Like if I go to a highly rated school that happens to be racist, right, is that what we're we're after?

Andrew: Yeah. I don't, I don't think equity is something we actually like rate schools on, right? There are some, there are some you know, look at, to hold schools more accountable for the difference in standardized test scores between subgroups of students. Uh, that's not like getting at this underlying issue of creating environments where kids can show up as their full selves and reach their full potential. And I think that's the equity. And so, yeah, I think there's a lot of very highly rated schools that are incredibly inequitable.

And not only are they inequitable within the building where, you know, we know that not all students are getting access to all of the resources that are there. But, the existence of those schools is draining away resources from other schools. So they're both contributing to inequity within their walls, and then inequity within the districts.

Val: Yeah, I think I'm feeling something else. I no longer believe as of the time of this recording that uh arguing for equitable schools is enough for people to want to take action for that change. We have been making these arguments for as long as we've had schools and for whatever reason they are not convincing enough. I'm trying to understand you know what is convincing to folks right? Like what is happening in reality that this feels hard for people?

Andrew: I think there's, there's probably a couple, a couple of layers to unpack there. I think…

Val: Yeah.

Andrew: …one is that as the conference theme suggests, you know, there is power in the stories we carry that, telling those stories, that sharing those stories does actually build a greater constituency for those things. And, and there are also a lot of stories being told, particularly right now that are counter to those messages.

Val: Mm-hmm.

Andrew: Stories that are about resources not being sufficient, uh, the stories that are about threats and fear and anger, um, that are also galvanizing people. And I think there's like a constant push and pull. There's a constant pendulum swinging back and forth. I think in times where people feel fearful, in times where people feel like there is not that, um, there's a tendency to kind of close rank and to try to hold onto the things that are available and the things that we feel like we have control over. And so ideas like equity don't feel as powerful or compelling. I think we're in that time period right now, and I think it's why it's important to keep telling stories about the positive things that happen when we actually have equity, to keep telling stories about the things that people have overcome, um, along the way. Because this has been a constant battle. This has been a constant push and pull, and there's been progress and there's been entrenchment, and there’s been good things that have happened and then ways in which we have fallen backward. I think it's an ongoing battle, but it's a battle that has been fought for hundreds of years.

Val: Maybe that's why I’m tired. {laughing}

Andrew: Yeah, for sure. For sure. Yeah. I mean, that's why, you know, like you, you had mentioned, mentioned last time, this is like a marathon relay race.

Val: Yeah it is.

Andrew: We get to pick up the baton in this period of time and keep telling the stories, both to honor the things that have happened in the past and to serve as a blueprint for the future.

Val: Yeah all of the stories that we shared remind me of the wonderful people that I've worked with in my entire career. And I am incredibly grateful for them, to them. I want them to have some rest sometimes. I want it to not always feel like a fight. I want them to know that they have full communities behind them. I don't want them to feel like they are a singleton, going to this conference in North Carolina to find their community. Right.

I think that that's my wish for folks who are in this work. And I think the only way that I can get my wish granted is if more people start speaking up. Because I do think those other people who are in support of them, who want to be in community uh with them, who believe what they do and are are really fighting for justice for our young people are out there.

Andrew: Yeah.

Val: We have to find the courage to not be silent. We are in a very interesting moment and I don't know how we get out of it. And that's me being like, straight up like. Without significant collective action on the part of people who care and that thought makes me tired.

Andrew: Yeah.

Val: So I want people to be clear that collective action starts with individual action and then finding your people. And your individual action can look any number of ways. And it can actually be part of your professional day if that's, if that fits into it. Right.

So it can be like if you are in a role where you have a voice and you have influence in ways to make your profession more equitable, just use it. If you have a company where your donations are matched. Donate and then force your corporation to match. We are in a time where social services, the arts, education are being defunded, people need as much support as they can possibly get. And then actually tell those stories of what you're doing.

Andrew: And why it’s important to you and the impact that it has. Because I do think it's easy to get overwhelmed by the, the big state of affairs. But, you know, walking around this conference, in this moment where it feels like the world is falling apart in so many ways. Where it feels like ideas about equity and education are, are not just not prioritized, but like actively being worked against by the federal government actively being worked against by a portion of the, of the population, to walk around this room and see all these people and hear their stories was inspiring.

Those stories, as, as Dr. Townsend Smith said, when we weave them together, become part of a collective story that can actually drive change. And so getting, taking action, going out and finding ways to be in community with people, finding small ways to be helpful in times where people need help, your one action is not going to solve all of the world's problems, but your one action combined with everybody else's one action can actually start to make a difference. And the only way we do that is if we take those small actions and then we tell stories about 'em.

Val: This is a new kind of headache.

Andrew: Yeah. What's this one?

Val: I don't know what this one is. This is a new kind of headache. I appreciate you Andrew and before we leave I'm gonna, I'm gonna tell you a story. I'm gonna tell you a story that's gonna give me some hope about what I've done.

Andrew: Okay.

Val: I have the honor and pleasure of working with a group of college students who are inspired to make change in their communities. And this group, first of all they are from all of the local colleges and universities in our area. And the fact that we have our HBCUs, our state schools, community college, like students represented in all of those places coming together because they care about history and action is a big deal in itself. And it truly can be a catalyst for them and for others and today that has to be enough. And tomorrow hopefully I can find something else to do. You know?

They each have a community based project And so they get to decide like Hey this is really important in our community right now and we wanna take some action around it. And it feels like I'm not always doing enough Right. It feels like I could be doing more I I have to remind myself that No no no like I am doing something and I am and and it will matter It already has mattered to the young people in that group. It will matter to their broad broader communities.

Andrew: Speaking of students.

Val: You got us a special invite. Tell us about it.

Andrew: We got a special invite. Dr. Genevieve Siegel Holly… I've followed her for a really long time. Um, she is a professor at Virginia Commonwealth University asked us to come speak to one of her PhD classes called Equal Educational Opportunity in the 21st Century Metropolis. And it was amazing, this classroom full of incredibly thoughtful students who were, uh, working on educational equity issues. We got to speak to them for, uh, about an hour, and it was really lovely. They were a great group.

Val: Oh my gosh they're so good. I'm like why do y'all want us here? They were awesome. They were awesome.

Andrew: It was very cool. She said uh, as soon as we hung up the call with them, they all cheered, which is pretty cool.

Val: Did they!? We are cheering for y'all too.

Andrew: Shout out to Dr. Siegel Holly's class at VCU.

Val: And the future doctors coming outta that room.

Andrew: That is cause for hope for sure.

Val: That is.

Andrew: They were all very thoughtful and, uh, committed to this work. Also uh, big thanks to Dr. Deanna Townsend Smith for inviting me to Color of Ed, for taking time to speak to me in the midst of her very busy day. And all the people who spoke to me. We'll put some links in the show notes to some more information about Color of Ed. If you go to the page on our website for this episode there’ll be a couple of pictures up there from the conference as well. And like you said Val, if you’re looking for a conference, definitely recommend checking out Color of Education.

Val: It feels like home right away. Please take a moment to share this episode and others with your community. Continue to have conversations about it. They can be imperfect. You do not have to practice in the mirror to bring people into a, into conversation about these things that matter to you. Have people bring their favorite beverage, get some charcuterie going, and just be in community with folks, and take the time to figure out like how you actually wanna show up in your community. I think that that matters so much now. It always has but so much more now.

Andrew: And keep telling your stories because storytelling is a powerful way to galvanize people to bring people together, to build community, and to then channel that energy into fighting for change.

Val: That's right. If you have the means please um shoot us some coins. We are taking donations. You can go to our website at integratedschools.org. There is a big red button on there that says Donate. We'd love whatever you can give.

Andrew: Absolutely. You can also join our Patreon, patreon.com/integrated schools. We had a great happy hour, uh, just a couple weeks ago. We'll be scheduling another one coming up soon. Uh, just a chance to get together and chit chat with folks about the podcast. So we'd love to see you there. And, send us your voice memos. Tell us your stories, your stories matter. We want to hear them. speakpipe.com/integrated schools, SpeakPipe, S-P-E-A-K-P-I-P-E.com/integratedschools. Tell us what is on your mind these days, how you are finding hope, and what stories are resonating for you. We would love to hear it.

Val: Yes please.

Andrew: Well, Val, I'm sad that you couldn't join me for Color of Ed this year. Maybe next year we'll go there together and tag team some interviews with people. But, it was really a gift to get to be there and to get to be in conversation with you about it. As always, it is an honor to be in this with you as I try to know better and do better.

Val: Until next time.