S10E11 – Local Stories of Desegregation: DENVER (Part 1)

S10E11 - Local Stories of Desegregation: DENVER (Part 1)

Andrew: Welcome to the Integrated Schools Podcast. I'm Andrew, a White dad from Denver.

Dr. Val: And I'm Val, a Black mom from North Carolina.

Andrew: And this is Local Stories of Desegregation: DENVER (Part 1).

And is the first of what will be several, kind of, deep dives into local contexts. Every city has some sort of desegregation story and we're gonna start with Denver, and hear from some other places coming up in future episodes.

Dr. Val: Yeah, and I, I think this is important because we know that location matters, right? There are people in each of these communities that have always been there working toward integration efforts. We wanna honor different local stories, because we know that it was all individuals who added to these big court cases that we know, right? Who made this change happen on a legal level.

Andrew: Yeah, absolutely. And hopefully, you will see over the course of these local deep dives that there's some national themes that pull out. So, you don't have to know much about Denver, or have spent much time in Denver, to find things that are interesting and relevant to your own local context through this story.

Dr. Val: All right, so that means we are talking about your hometown!

Andrew: That's right! I am a White dad from Denver. This is the story of Denver's desegregation case. And we're gonna tell it over three parts. And it's actually, audio from an event called Integration and Equity in Denver Public Schools, 50 years after Keyes that a local group that I work with here hosted.

Dr. Val: All right, so can you talk a little bit about the group and this event?

Andrew: Yeah! So the group is called Park Hill Neighbors for Equity and Education. We call it PHNEE, P-H-N-E-E. It just, it just rolls off the tongue.

Dr. Val: Ph…nee! Got it!

Andrew: Yeah. Yep.

[Andrew and Val laugh]

Clearly there were no marketing people involved when we came up with that name, but, unfortunately it stuck and, and we're sticking with it at this point.

So, PHNEE is a group of local parents and grandparents, caregivers, teachers who are committed to equity for the kids in four elementary schools that are in the neighborhood that I grew up in, that I still live in now, called Park Hill, which is a neighborhood in Denver.

Dr. Val: So you've been with this group for a little while now, about how long?

Andrew: Yeah, so the group sort of came out of, a community meeting in August of 2017, looking at the disparities that existed between the schools and the neighborhood and saying like, “Why is it that we have such wildly different, resources available to schools that are within, you know, two and a half miles of each other and all in the same neighborhood?” And, out of that meeting grew a group of people who said, “Yeah, we should try to do something about this.”

And that was sort of the birth of PHNEE.

Dr. Val: Yeah, and you know, I'm just thinking about the timing of that and how I feel like a, a lot of local communities were activated, shortly after 2016 to figure out like, what are, what are we gonna do here in our communities to create the world that we wanna live in?

Okay! So you come together and invite the public to an event.

Andrew: So this has been something that we've been talking about doing for a long time because, I guess technically last year, 2023, marked 50 years since the Keyes decision and the Keyes case was Wilfred Keyes and seven other families sued Denver Public Schools for creating what they said was a dual education system, one education system for White kids and a separate and inferior one for kids of color.

And that case started in Park Hill, in the neighborhood that I grew up in. And it spawned 20 something years of court order desegregation, which included busing in public schools, and had all sorts of other ripples, not just in Denver, but actually throughout the country.

Dr. Val: Now, I want the folks to know that I have to work very hard for Andrew to talk about himself in any of these podcasts.

[Andrew laughs]

And so, it's a big deal that we get to see how you show up locally, and hear your story, specifically around the impact of Keyes on you and the future choices that you've made to be engaged in this work.

So, I'm excited!

Andrew: Yeah! I was fortunate enough to have a co-host for the event, Michael Atkins, who was the principal at my kid's school when they were in elementary school.

He actually just recently left to go start a Black student success program through the central office of the district. He's been a huge inspiration to me. His story, the way that he shows up. Um, not just that he has always impeccably dressed, but the way that he cares for kids, and the way that he drives change in the system has always been really inspirational.

So, I was glad that he agreed to, kind of, co-host the event with me.

Dr. Val: Awesome. So you're, you're co-hosting with Atkins, but then you have another very special guest. Who’s that?

Andrew: Yes. There were a number of really awesome people who showed up and agreed to participate. In Part One here, you're gonna also hear from Christi Keyes Romero. So the Keyes case is named for Wilfred Keyes, who was the named plaintiff, but he filed the case on behalf of his daughter, who is Christi Keyes Romero.

Dr. Val: So, because this was a live event and because this was a local event, you'll hear audience reaction, when they're cheering for their schools or their, their rival high schools. And so it was a fun event! In addition to being one that you all learned and connected on a deep level.

Andrew: Absolutely. Yeah, it was hosted at Manual High School, which has also been an institution in the city, but is a rival high school to East, where I went. And, you'll hear Christi Keyes Romero went to GW, which is another high school locally. And so you'll hear a little bit of audience reaction when people bring up their high schools.

And you'll have to hear it through, uh, certainly the, the worst audio quality of any show we put out because it is a live recording from a live event. So, my apologies for that ahead of time.

Dr. Val: Yes, I think people will grant us some grace,

Andrew: Absolutely.

All right, let's take a listen to part one of Integration and Equity in DPS, 50 years after Keyes.

----------------------------

Mike Atkins: Well, good morning! My name is Michael Atkins.

I'm the former principal of Stedman Elementary.

[Audience cheers]

We got Stedman folks in the house. I am the current director of Black Student Success with the DPS.

[Audience cheers]

And I just want to take a moment for us to all get grounded. I consider myself a journeyman with DPS. I tell everyone I've been part of the district in some capacity since I was four years old. So for all of my life I've been part of the district. And I have various different experiences in the district.

We'll do some storytelling today. Some of the stories that you will hear today. Some of the conversations that you will engage in, they could be quite heavy.

Now, the reason we need to center ourselves is because we need to engage as authentic listeners today. You might be sitting next to someone with different lived experience, with different opinions. That is totally okay. I think oftentimes we work so hard to change someone's perception or opinions that we lose sight of what truly matters.

So today we're gonna be grounding ourselves in conversations of past experiences of kids, current experiences of kids, and how can we be forward thinkers for our babies.

So at this moment, I'm gonna pass it over to my co-host, Andrew Lefkowits.

Andrew: Yes, yes. Thank you. My name is Andrew Lefkowits. I'm the co-chair of Park Hill Neighbors for Equity and Education. Really, really grateful to you all for being here. As Mike mentioned, we are the co-hosts for Integration and Equity in Denver Public Schools, 50 years after Keyes.

So 50 years ago, almost 51 years ago, the Supreme Court determined that Denver Public Schools was violating the constitutional rights of its Black and Brown students by maintaining what they called the dual education system. Basically, an education system for White kids and a separate and inferior education system for students of color.

This led to 22 years of court ordered desegregation, including busing. It radically reshaped not just DPS, but the country as a whole. The impacts of the decision were wide ranging, from the systems level all the way down to the personal level.

The case set precedent at the Supreme Court that would go on to influence desegregation cases throughout the country. It caused an amendment to the Colorado State Constitution, and it exacerbated the massive demographic shifts that were happening in the seventies, eighties, and nineties of mostly White families moving to the suburbs.

It also created the era of busing, and that era had undeniable benefits and real costs. Busing decreased academic achievement gaps between White students and students of color. It increased access to resources for students of color, but it also destroyed many culturally affirming Black schools, resulted in the loss of Black teachers and school leaders, and frequently ended up sending students of color to schools with more resources, but also more hostility.

All that to say it was nuanced and complicated, but undeniably influential. And while the systems-level impact is important, I think sometimes it's easy when we think about the system to forget about the kids, who are the most important part of the education system.

So our focus today is on individual stories, is on people's personal experiences. The case changed the country, it changed the state, it changed the city, but more importantly, it changed the lives of students, parents, school leaders, school board members, and it continues to impact us all today.

So why are Mike and I co-hosting this event? It is not because we have the same stylist. I'm sure you were wondering.

[Laughter]

But if you heard the Brother Jeff show the other day, he mentioned that, um, that John Bailey once referred to him as a Keyes kid.

Well, Mike and I are both Keyes kids. We were both indelibly shaped by the Keyes case and the decisions that were made by state leaders, by educators, by teachers at that time, planted a seed of conviction in both of us that led us to the work we do. So I was raised in Park Hill. I went to Stedman, went to East, got any Angels?

Halo? All right. All right. I know we're in Manual, it’s a little, a little controversial.

[Laughter]

But, the way the district was at the time really had an influence on me, led me to this work that I do with PHNEE. And also led me to some national work I do within an organization called Integrated Schools, where I'm very fortunate to co-host a podcast called The Integrated Schools Podcast. So unquestionably, the ripples of the decisions that were made for me have had this huge impact in my life. And Mike shares a similar story.

Mike Atkins: I want you all to imagine showing up to work every single day, and being forced to hold a job for 12, 12, 13 years.

But in year one, you understand that people around you, they don't like you. They don't see you. And it's a hostile environment.

This is what we ask babies to do every single day. Be resilient. Show up to work. You might not be seen, you might not be heard, you might not feel loved, but you gotta show up to work. And if you don't, there are punitive consequences.

I can remember that moment I understood I had to show up to work and I wasn't loved.

I remember getting off the bus my sixth grade year. Standing in line, it's a new school or heading into the building. It was raining outside, early fall day. And I remember walking past my gym teacher and she's talking to the, her colleague and she says, “Here comes the bus kids.” At the time it was so matter of fact, I didn't think anything of it. But I would learn through my experience the next three years that “Here comes the bus kids” meant something totally different.

So what happens when you are forced to go to a space where you're not seen, not heard, and not loved?

I grew to hate school.

Waking up every morning was a chore. Spending eight hours, 30 minutes on the bus to, 30 minutes on the bus home, and then spending seven hours in a building where I didn't feel seen and/or loved.

And some very shining moments and personal relationships came out of that time. Some of my best friends I met in, in that building, that weren't from the same neighborhood I was from.

But what was lacking was the intercultural development of our educators to truly understand that the ask shouldn't be for our babies to assimilate to school. It should be “How are we shifting our culture to the students that are in front us?”

These same things are occurring right now in our schools. So when Andrew says we are Keyes kids, it's because it's shaped us. It has shaped our why, it has shaped our determination. It has even shifted the way that we parent and the decisions that we make in our communities.

Andrew: Yeah. Thank you, Mike. So, as you can see, we're, we're gonna dig in. We're gonna go heavy here.

A couple of quick disclaimers before we really dive in for real. This event is called Integration and Equity. The word “integration” is a loaded term. It carries a lot of historical trauma, it carries a lot of baggage. And we have to acknowledge that. But what we want to do is identify a, a new vision for integration. The way that we think about integration is separate from desegregation.

So desegregation was a question of moving bodies around. It was about what percentage of kids at what school are which race. We think of integration as, as a finding new forms of shared power. As creating new systems that recognize everybody's humanity, that acknowledge the full humanity of everyone and allow them to show up as their full selves, in a truly integrated place that makes us all richer.

Mike Atkins: I think one, when we think about disclaimers as well, Andrew, let's all ground in that White children aren't this amazing special gift to education.

[Laughter]

And that our babies aren't born with an achievement gap.

[Applause]

Let's also ground in there is power in for us, by us - in monocultural spaces, right? In affinity groups, right? There is power in that.

Also, we all have something to bring to the table, right? And we all have a personal responsibility and some skin in the game there.

Andrew: Yeah. I mean, I, I couldn't say it better, but I, I do think there is one person who maybe could say it better.

So, in, uh, 1974, Thurgood Marshall in his dissenting opinion in the Milliken v Bradley case had this to say: Thurgood Marshall: Our nation, I fear, will be ill served by this court's refusal to remedy separate and unequal education for unless our children begin to learn together, there is little hope that our people will ever learn to live together and understand each other.

Mike Atkins: There is little hope that our people will ever learn to live together and understand each other.

It is all of our duty to make sure that we are modeling that at the highest level.

Andrew: Yeah. And, and we are not the first people to think of this, right? Mike and I did not come up with the, the idea.

This is, this is work that has been generational work, right? We stand here on the shoulders of giants. People who saw injustice and decided to do something about it. Even if that thing wasn't easy, even if that thing was dangerous, even if it came at great cost to themselves or to their families, and even if they didn't know if it was gonna be successful in their lifetimes. People who chose to be part of the long battle, right? The work of bending the moral arc of the universe towards justice.

In 1969, one of those people was Dr. Wilford Keyes. He joined with seven other families to sue DPS for violating the equal protection rights of their children and did so knowing that there was potentially great cost to that, but I think he believed that it was worth it.

But you don't have to take my word for it. It is my deep honor and privilege to bring to the stage someone with direct experience of that. Um, please welcome the great Ms. Christi Keyes Romero.

[Applause]

Thank you for being here.

Christi Keyes Romero: Thank you for having me.

Andrew: Thank you for agreeing to do this. I know this is not your favorite thing to do, so we are, are grateful that you were willing to do it.

Christi Keyes Romero: Oh, okay.

Andrew: Um, I wonder if you could just tell us a little bit of your story. I know you grew up in Park Hill.

Christi Keyes Romero: Oh yes.

Andrew: You went to Hallett?

Christi Keyes Romero: Yes.

Andrew: To Smiley.

Christi Keyes Romero: Mm-Hmm.

Andrew: You went to GW.

Christi Keyes Romero: Right.

Andrew: Okay.

[Audience laughs/jeers]

Easy. Little dangerous in this room! Um, what, what was your schooling experience like growing up?

Christi Keyes Romero: Well, I actually started off at Mitchell.

Andrew: Oh, okay.

Christi Keyes Romero: So I would say we moved to Park Hill, um, when I was probably eight and my mom was at Mitchell as a teacher's aide. So we stayed there for the end of the school year. Then I did go to Hallet. So, then I went to Smiley, but I was not, I wasn't bused. So I still got to go to my neighborhood school. The buses were coming in to where I was going to school.

Yeah. It was different for me. Then I was, then I was bused to GW. Yeah.

Andrew: Yeah. Yeah. Can we talk about your parents a little bit?

Christi Keyes Romero: Um, yeah, sure.

Andrew: We've got a beautiful picture of them up there.

[Applause]

I wanna hold a little space for your mom. I know she just passed away in October, I think.

Christi Keyes Romero: Yes.

Andrew: She would've been 98, just a week or two ago.

Christi Keyes Romero: Yeah, February 1st. Yeah. But, um, long, long, lots of fabulous life she had.

Andrew: Lots of connections. Yeah. Um, your dad had to walk past a White school to get to his Black school, right?

Christi Keyes Romero: Yes. My dad was from Kansas City, Missouri. So that was, I would say originally what made him feel like he did about the education system is because he experienced walking past a White school to get to his school in elementary.

And on the other hand, my mom was born in western Kansas and she was the only Black all the way through school. So they grew up totally different from each other. Yeah. But they came together when it comes to the lawsuit.

Yeah. The equal opportunity for all children.

Andrew: Was, was that what motivated your dad? He, he, he thought that every kid deserved equal opportunity.

Christi Keyes Romero: Yes. I would've to say definitely. Yeah. Yes.

Andrew: Mm-Hmm. Uh, it wasn't easy. Can we, can we talk about, uh, almost exactly 54 years ago, February 24th, 1970.

Christi Keyes Romero: You're right.

Andrew: There's a picture from the paper. Your house was firebombed, right?

Christi Keyes Romero: Yeah. At that time there were several bombings around the city, and the school buses got bombed.

And so, one evening sitting at the table, dining room table, I was doing my homework. Um, I heard something bump at the door and told my dad, I thought it was our dog. And he looked out the door. He sees the smoke, and right away, you know, he said, it's a firebomb!

So then he pushes us all to the back of the house, and he goes around to the front. He tries to go to the front of the house with a pot of water to put the throw on the firebomb before he could get to it, it, um, went off a couple of times and blew out the, everybody's window next to us, ours. And it was just the most scary thing.

But the funny thing about it -which is really not funny - is the guy that bombed our house, came in there right after the bomb went off to see if we were okay. The next morning when the detectives come out, my parents were in shock. Evidently they didn't even remember this man coming in. And he, um, he said he lived across the street.

At that time, we had no White neighbors across the street, so I, I remembered that the next morning, and also saw what he drove off in, so they brought mugshots in and this guy, I identified him, got subpoenaed to court as a child, and he went to prison. You know, so that was a bad, yeah, that was, that was a bad, yeah.

I think I probably had PTSD still, right? To be honest.

Andrew: No question. Yeah. Thank you for sharing.

Christi Keyes Romero: Jump all the time.

Andrew: Right. Um, yeah, people were willing to go to great lengths to fight drives for, for equity.

Christi Keyes Romero: Yeah.

Andrew: Um, I like to think we're past the days of firebombing, but we are certainly not past the days of people fighting hard against, uh, equity, against integration.

You're now reentering the education system with your grandchildren.

Christi Keyes Romero: Yeah, well I have one coming.

Andrew: So you got a grandchild on the way.

Christi Keyes Romero: So I, yes, I actually will be, and I'm a DPS person, so that's what they'll, that's where they hope, hoping.

Andrew: Yeah. What do you, what do you want people to know, or what do you want people to do after hearing your story?

Christi Keyes Romero: Well, to, to, don't talk about it. Do something about it, you know.

[Applause]

I'm actually tired of talking about it! To be honest. But, I think someone, people, some, like people need to step up. Um, hopefully since I will be having a grandchild, I'll be able to engage and get, get deeper into it as well, you know. When you don't have children in the school system, you kind of get laxed, which is not good either.

Andrew: That's right.

Christi Keyes Romero: You know, but yeah. So, I would say yeah, just keep thinking these, these children, of all colors, especially to Brown children, you know, keep 'em in mind. They need equal, same as everybody.

Andrew: Thanks. Yeah. We're, we're gonna discuss in a little bit that the district is, is now basically as segregated as it was back in the sixties before your dad began the fight.

Christi Keyes Romero: Yeah.

Andrew: You know, he jumped in with both feet and maybe sort of dragged your mom along with him a little bit.

Um, do you know, do, do you think his fight was worth it? Do you think your family's fight was worth it?

Christi Keyes Romero: Oh, I think it was definitely worth it. Yeah. Yeah. Even though it, it's regressed and it's not like it was, but yeah. Because there were people that benefited from it, for sure.

Yeah. I mean, I, um, talk to people off and on. I'm a I, I'm a CNA and I've been a CNA for over 30 years. And I do home care. So I've run into all kind of people over the years that tell me they benefited from it.

Andrew: Well, I am certainly one of those people who benefited from it. I'm so grateful for your family, for their sacrifice. I know it wasn't easy, but, um, I think we are, we are certainly a better city for it, and, and your family played a big part in that. I'm really grateful for you agreeing to do this.

Christi Keyes Romero: Well, thank you.

[Applause]

----------------------------

Andrew: So Val, what did you think?

Dr. Val: I, I'm just so thrilled that one, you have this local community where you all can come together and have these meaningful conversations, and I'm grateful that Mrs. Keyes Romero was brave enough to come and have the conversation with the group. Because, you know, one thing that, she said, and I think this feels honest, is that, you know, she’s tired talking about it. Not “it,” but the fact that we are not at the place where we should be yet when it comes to integration efforts and equity for our young people in schools.

Right? And so, I imagine that her taking the time to reflect on her own experience, requires you to just go back into your memory and you can't help but feel those things and feel those experiences, again. And so I, I, I'm just really grateful that she offered that up to your community and now to us.

Andrew: Yeah, absolutely. I was deeply touched that she was willing to do it. I mean, she, she said a number of times she doesn't really like to speak in public, but felt like it was a powerful event and, and that the story should be told. And, both of her parents now have passed away, her dad a number of years ago, and then her mom just actually, back in October, I think.

And so, I think, you know, she feels the weight of carrying on the family legacy and of sharing the story. And also, yeah, it's, it's, it's re-traumatizing to, uh, to talk about it, certainly the event of being firebombed. And so we were certainly grateful she was willing to do it and glad that we can share that story.

And I think even the other thing I’m just struck by, in, in having had conversations with her ahead of time and then being at the event with her, like, she's not an old woman, you know? I think it's easy to think about these stories and think of that as relegated to way in the past. And, she's not an old woman at all. This is very recent history.

Dr. Val: And for that recency, it feels odd that we aren't more comfortable talking about it as a country.

Andrew: Hmm. Yeah.

Dr. Val: You know? Because, it's not just Mrs. Keyes Romero that is still a young person, there's also White folks,

Andrew: Right.

Dr. Val: Who are still around. Like you mentioned, her mother just passed, and so there's probably still White folks who are in the local community who are like, “Yeah, I don't know. I don't know how I feel about this desegregation thing.”

And so, the fact that we haven't figured out how to talk about this as easily, given you and I are literally one generation removed from this, tells me that, you know, there's still work to be done to build up our collective strength and willingness to engage in these difficult conversations.

Andrew: Yeah, absolutely. Her story and, you know, again, sort of come back to the, the theme for the season of storytelling, like her telling her story was certainly a gift to us.

And hopefully helps people see just how vehement, the pushback to integration efforts were at the time, but I, I also worry that people will see the, the extreme nature of firebombing and think, “Well, I would never do that.” And so not view the ways that we are all complicit and kind of perpetuating in this cycle.

The, the ways that we show up look different and I, you know, I, I would like to think that we're not at risk of fire bombs right now, but certainly the degree of pushback that shows up is, is, is definitely the same.

Dr. Val: Yeah. No, I, I don't share that same comfort that we're not at the risk of fire bombs right now. Um, but it is my hope that we have enough stories like you, from you and Mr. Atkins where people have seen the benefit of this work. And thus, we have more voices against the fire bombs than may have been silent in the past.

Andrew: Yeah. Yeah, I mean, you know, I, I may have said it once or twice before, but this is generational work, you know! And one of the other joys of this event was that it is an intergenerational conversation.

So, in addition to Christi Keyes Romero, to Mike Atkins and I, who were both, you know, directly impacted by the case, we also had my mom, who is gonna show up in Part Two.

Dr. Val: Nice!

Andrew: So, you know, Denver's court ordered desegregation case ended in 1995 and my mom was actually elected to the school board in 1995, and her first year on the school board was figuring that out.

And so, when listeners tune in for Part Two, you'll hear my mom's story of the case and more of the details of the history of the case. And then, speaking of the people who were there during the time an incredible panel with Pat Pascoe, who's a White woman. She was a state senator, she was really heavily involved in the work in the early days, of, fighting for desegregation in Denver Public Schools.Her husband actually ran for school board on a pro integration ticket in 1969. He ended up losing, but they were really heavily involved.

And then Buddy Noel, who's a Black man, who was the son of the very first Black school board member in Denver Public School, Rachel B. Noel, and Denver also was the first tri-ethnic case that involved–

Dr. Val: Oh wow!

Andrew: –Latinx students. And so, we have Kathy Escamilla who was part of that panel as well, to talk about the Congress of Hispanic Educators who got involved in the case. So there was really a sort of a, a multi-racial group of people fighting this battle even way back then.

Dr. Val: Right. And I think that's something that we can't forget that no one group has done this work alone in the history of this work being done.

Andrew: Right. All of that will be coming in Part Two.

And then Part Three, we get into some stories about today, and the degree of segregation in the district today, and also have a student voice panel. So, it was really an excellent event and lots to keep tuning into. So stay tuned to your feeds over the next two weeks, you'll see Part Two and Part Three coming soon.

Dr. Val: Awesome. And you laid out an awesome agenda that I think is transferable, right? So, bringing together a multi-racial and multi-generational group to talk about the past, who has been involved in coalition building, where we are now and our hopes in the future. That is something that is a transferable lesson to anyone who's listening right now from our Denver story.

Do you have any other, like, big ideas that felt transferable to our national audience?

Andrew: I think that –and this has been one of our themes, but– the power of storytelling. So, you know, hearing from these people, and as Mike and I said in the very beginning, the goal was to tell stories. The goal was to talk about our personal experiences with it.

And there is obviously national significance and, and local significance to the policies and to this sort of systemic level. But what we were really trying to get at was, what was this like for you personally? What drove you to make these decisions to show up in, in what way you did? So I think that's certainly a, a story that can be told in many places, because everywhere we look at court decisions, at desegregation cases, at policies that have changed or been enacted or regressed, those are all driven by people, right?

Those are all driven by people showing up and saying, “Here's what I'm gonna do. Here's what I care about. Here's how I'm gonna get involved.” And it took Wilford Keyes and seven other families to really hold the district's feet to the fire and say, “No, this is not all right.” And, and then it took years and years.

It took Holland and Hart, who was the law firm that took on the case pro bono. They, you know,

Dr. Val: Oh wow. Mm-Hmm.

Andrew: they, they fought the Keyes case for 25 years pro bono. So you have, you have lawyers who were involved. You had all these people who had to show up and say like, “I wanna be on the right side of history. I want to be part of doing this thing,” for those changes to happen. I think it's easy to look back and say like, “Yeah, we had the Keyes case, we had court ordered desegregation,” without recognizing the, the real work and effort that went into, to getting to that place.

Dr. Val: Yeah, and what you just shared reminds me of another, one of our themes for the season is stamina.

Andrew: Yeah.

Dr. Val: I was reflecting on a conversation I had recently, and what I realized, when I was like, “Okay, I'm gonna make this decision to try to change something that I don't like.” I, in my spirit, had decided I'm gonna sign up to do this for at least a year. It's gonna be at least a year. Lemme just get my heart right. There'll be lots of conversations. I'll take my time, because I know that's what it takes. But I don't know that everyone has that same idea, going into they're like, “I want change. I want it now.”

Andrew: Our kids deserve it now.

Dr. Val: Of course!

Andrew: And yet it is, it is gonna be hard fought work.

Dr. Val: That's right. And you have to go into that knowing, the type of journey that you're signing up for, and I think that's, that's another important lesson.

Andrew: Absolutely. We mentioned in the conversation, uh, we were showing some pictures. There's an amazing picture of Ms. Keyes Romero as a young child. A great picture of her parents, and actually a picture from the newspaper of her house after the firebombing. So, if listeners wanna see that, there'll be a link in the show notes to some of the slides we shared, and then also to a video of the full event.

So, if you can't wait to hear part two and three, which will be coming in your feed soon , with some commentary from Val and I, you can go right ahead and watch the whole event on YouTube, with a link through the show notes.

Dr. Val: Listen. Think about how your community works through, or is working through, desegregation efforts and integration efforts. Come back with your own stories, because we would love to fill the feed with lots of local stories so that people can be inspired around the country.

Andrew: Absolutely. Send us your voice memos integratedschools.org. Click the leave us a voice memo button or just record something on your phone and send it off to podcast@integratedschools.org. We want to hear your stories. What is the local context like where you are? What are the stories that get told or don't get told in your local community about school desegregation efforts?

We know that Brown v Board impacted everybody in the country, but we don't often know how and in what ways it showed up. So encourage you to call in, leave us a voice memo. Also encourage you to head over to patreon.com/integratedschools and throw us a few bucks every month to help keep this podcast going.

Dr. Val: That's right. Thank you friend for inviting me in to your community.

Andrew: Absolutely. I'm really excited to get to share this. The event was a lot of work, but it felt very satisfying to tell these stories and bring people to the table to discuss them. And I'm really excited we get to share 'em on the feed here.

Dr. Val: That's right.

Andrew: So listeners, make sure you hit that follow button in your podcast app so you don't miss an episode.

The next two parts of this series will be coming out once a week for the next two weeks, and then we will be back to regularly scheduled programming. So, definitely hit that follow button and, Val is, a pleasure as always to be in this with you as I try to know better and do better.

Dr. Val: Until next time.