S10E1 – Season 10 Kick Off: Reconnecting

Season 10 Kick Off - Reconnecting

Andrew: Welcome to the Integrated Schools Podcast. I'm Andrew, a White dad from Denver.

Dr. Val: And I'm Val, a Black mom from North Carolina.

Andrew: And this is Season 10 Kickoff: Reconnecting.

Dr. Val: We are back!

Andrew: We are back, Val!

Dr. Val: And better than ever. I can't believe it.

Andrew: We are back. It is fall. School has started. We've got lots of great stuff planned for Season 10, but we thought we'd just take a little time today to welcome everybody back, to talk a little bit about, you know, where we are, in our own journeys, and what we've got planned coming up for the rest of the season.

Dr. Val: That sounds like a very good idea.

Andrew: We've already got some great conversations recorded. Stuff's going to be coming out soon. We've got great stuff planned, but we thought we'd take just a minute to kind of talk about the, the big picture themes for the season that we're hoping to–

And I, you know, I always have grand plans about the, like, big arc of the season and the themes that are gonna show up in every episode. And this is in no way a promise that that's gonna happen.

Dr. Val: It's a promise!

[Val giggles]

Andrew: I'm sure there will be some episode that doesn't actually pull it off, or we'll forget to do something.

But, you know, big picture, these things that, that are on both of our minds, at least, as we kick off this season. The importance of public schools. The power of storytelling. The power of proximity and being in community. And then this idea of, kind of, stamina and hope and, and how do we push back against running out of steam?

And we're gonna unpack all of those. But first, Val, the school year has started.

Dr. Val: Yeah.

Andrew: How are you feeling? What's on your mind? Remind us where in school your kids are.

Dr. Val: Yeah. When I was thinking about this, I realized this was the first year in a little while that we've had back-to-back years of normalcy. My son is now a sophomore. Cannot believe that. I know. And my daughter is a freshman, but her school is a 6 through 12, so she didn't have to move buildings. So, the transition felt much easier.

You know, we're, we're new to the state, and so this is the year where I feel like, “Okay, we are making friends. I know people that I've seen. I kind of know the processes. I know how to get around the school.”

We are seeing young people in the community. Like, my husband went to Krispy Kreme one day and we saw a student we knew and he threw in some extra miniature donuts and we're like, “We need to go on the day he works!”

[Laughter]

You know? And, and so it's, it's, it feels good to be rooted in community, like even around my neighborhood. You know, I, I love my neighbor, Mr. John, but I'm meeting other neighbors that I get a chance to hang out with. One of my new favorites is, is Miss Patricia. We share a birthday month. And so, um.

Andrew: God–

[Val laughs]

– the birthday month.

Dr. Val: That's right. The birthday month.

Andrew: We are in your birthday month, right?

Dr. Val: Correct! We are, we are days into my birthday month. Um, and so it, it feels nice to feel settled, not only in a new place, but still our post-pandemic reality? And so, it feels–

[Sound of knocking on wood]

–normal.

Andrew: Yeah.

Dr. Val: How about you?

Andrew: I feel similarly. Neither of my kids changed schools this year. So I had a third grader go to fourth grade and a sixth grader go to seventh grade.

So, start of school year felt very drama-free. And we were never going to get back to what pre-pandemic life was like, but this feels like the start of a year that feels really, kind of, squarely situated in a new normal. We had years that were interrupted.

Last year it seemed like, “Okay, we're going to go back, but things are still kind of chaotic.” And there, you know, there's still some chaos. I think we're still dealing, particularly my oldest, the seventh grade class, the administration has said one of their more challenging classes. I think they’re kids who missed, missed some pretty key years during the pandemic. And so, there's challenges associated with that, but it does feel, like, we're sort of more of a normal state.

And I do think there's a way in which I, I feel like I can't use the excuse of Covid anymore. The excuses are over, so now it's time to step back up and make sure I'm connected to communities in the way that I want to be.

Dr. Val: Nice.

Andrew: What sorts of concerns are you sitting with here as we're kicking off this new school year?

Dr. Val: Yeah. I have some real concerns and then I have some made up concerns. I think my made up concerns, that feel real, is preparing my two young people for college.

Andrew: Mmm.

Dr. Val: You know, it doesn't stop at the K-12. Like, you're also trying to prepare them to be successful in the next level. I'm not a parent who, like, cares a lot about Ivy League or anything. Like, get into a college. Get into a college, right? And, and we'll, we'll make the rest of it work. But I can't help but–

I want to make sure that they are taking advantage of clubs, and make sure they have, like, the quote, right classes.

Andrew: Mm-hmm.

Dr. Val: And I've, I've been thinking about those things a lot. And that is probably a made up concern because it'll be okay, right? I'm talking about someone who's been in high school for literally three weeks.

I'm like, “Think about your resume!”

[Laughter]

She's like, “Can you chill?” So, I think that's something that I'm, I'm recognizing now, actually put more stock into than I… thought I did?

Andrew: Mmm. Mm-hmm.

Dr. Val: And, I'm just wondering what that says about my investment in the system in the way that it is.

Andrew: Yeah.

Dr. Val: Right?

Andrew: Yeah, that's really interesting. I'd be curious to hear from other listeners who have older kids. It's really easy to look at that, kind of, competitive, “How do I set my kid up for the best success in elementary school?” And be like, “That's silly. I'm not going to play that game.”

And the closer and closer you get to a place where they are actually going to choose a college, where they're actually going to set out on getting a job or whatever, the, like, reality of the way the world currently works starts to bump up against your, like, vision for the way you would like the world to work.

Dr. Val: Yeah.

Andrew: It's one thing to be like, “Yeah, I don't care about prestige at all. I don't care what school you go to.” And then you're like, “But the world may actually care a little bit. And so, like, how do I balance those things out?” Yeah. That's tricky.

Dr. Val: Yeah, and so, you know, we're committed to their schools. We love their public schools. We're not, that's not the concern, but I think even within that I'm like, “Okay. What club would feel good to have,” you know? “Is there an internship that we should be thinking about that would make you marketable,” or like, “Where should you do your community service and how should it tie into your other interests?” It's, it's a lot!

And what I am, what I'm also learning is that so much of it is driven by me as a caregiver. Like, I haven't had a meeting that says, “Hey, come to the school and let's talk about how to prepare your kid for college.” But I know those conversations are probably happening in more affluent and/or private schools. Like, “Hey, let's have a meeting about how to get your kids ready.”

We know those things happen, depending on what school you go to. And so, that's curious to me because I don't wanna, I don't wanna play the game, and yet I don't want my kids to suffer for not knowing the rules of the game.

Andrew: Right. Yeah. How much can you play the game without really buying into it? How much can you, like, set them up without costing them their soul, but also giving them the, the opportunities that you want them to have? Yeah. I think, yeah, that's a tricky, tricky thing to balance.

Dr. Val: Well, for better or worse, once they get to high school, they're like, “I'm not doing that, so thank you for your suggestion, lady.”

[Laughter]

Andrew: Yeah, that's probably the other–

Dr. Val: “No, thanks!”

Andrew: –piece. You actually don't have nearly as much control as you would like to think.

Dr. Val: Like, “That was a cute idea, mom, but I'm gonna go do this.” And so,

Andrew: “Actually, this is what I'm doing.” Yeah.

Dr. Val: Correct. Let me hear one of your concerns.

Andrew: Yeah, I'm not feeling a ton of concern at the start of the year. I think probably the thing that's weighing on my mind a little bit is just how to help my oldest through middle school. Like, middle school is middle school and it's tough and there are things about it that she doesn't like and, kind of, trying to tease out how do I sort of help her have the best outlook she can on the ways in which middle school is challenging. Whether that's, you know, kids judging the clothes you're going to wear, or kids not paying attention in class when she wants to be learning something more or, the sort of social interactions and that sort of thing.

How do we, like, set her up to have kind of the best attitude about the things that drive her nuts about middle school that doesn't, like, kill her spirit. But also acknowledges that it's reasonable to be frustrated with some of these things.

Dr. Val: That is a super valid question. It made me wonder, I, like, “If you talk to your cousin about what it’s like to be in middle school,” right? Or like, some other person that's a little bit older than you that you trust. Like, maybe a family friend, maybe a, a family member who can kind of give you the low down.

I mean, I have one just out to, you know. And, uh, so if they can connect and just text about the–

Andrew: Yeah, maybe that's,

Dr. Val: –um, I am happy to offer, offer that up.

Andrew: I will say there are challenges. I, I, I feel very good about the school that she is in, and these challenges come up. And I, I, you know, I, I can see the way in which it's easy to start blaming those things on “this” type of school. “Oh, well, it's under-resourced. Well, there's too many kids with high needs. There's too much poverty,” you know, whatever.

You can start, like, blaming the school, and most of the time I'm able to just sort of let that slide and recognize that for the kind of, the ways in which I've been programmed to blame that on the school and not on the time of life, or the transitions, or whatever.

But there are moments where she has been hanging out with some other friends who go to different schools, more kind of quote, unquote desirable schools, and they are also complaining about the school.

Dr. Val: Yes!

Andrew: And I'm like, “Okay! I feel, I feel, I feel good now.” It just turns out that kids kind of, kids kind of don't like seventh grade, so that’s cool.

Dr. Val: I love it! I love it.

Andrew: Yeah.

Dr. Val: Yeah, the other thing that I'm thinking about, I think it's tied to, to my kids and college, is the recent Supreme Court decision overturning affirmative action. And I think what we have to continue to do, as folks of color, whether you're affluent, or middle-class, or under-resourced, find ways to stick together because I think those types of decisions are designed to divide us as communities.

And again, I'm less worried about my particular kids having a college experience that they can enjoy and get into, but I'm thinking about, in the grand scheme of things, like, what message does this send to communities who are trying to unite? What does it say about who deserves what? So I, I am concerned about like, yeah, how do we, how do we remain in community when there's opportunities to divide us?

Andrew: And, and so many forces (I mean, we'll talk about this here in a minute), but, you know, so many forces pushing back on not just affirmative action in college, but public education more broadly. I certainly feel far more concern about the state of public education than I do for either of my kids in their particular public schools and the, kind of, the education they're getting.

I have much more kind of, like, existential angst for the institution of public education than I do for either of my kids in this moment.

Dr. Val: I feel that.

Andrew: What feels easy? Is there stuff that feels, feels like it had been a weight that is not a weight anymore?

Dr. Val: My, my kids have good friend groups and that feels awesome. To have familiar names to have, like, a bestie they share time with and hang out. That feels great! Because that, I, I want my kids to feel socially connected and, you know again, moving here during the pandemic was hard for them to do that, for a little while. And now, they have, like, plans, you know, like “I'm going skating,” or “Can I go over hang out my friend's house?” And I'm like–

Andrew: Yeah.

Dr. Val: –“Yeah!” That feels good.

Andrew: Yeah.

Dr. Val: I'm grateful.

Andrew: Yeah. I feel the exact same way. What are you hoping for this year?

Dr. Val: You know, I, I really appreciate that question because I was caught up in a future that's many years away. And so, it's forcing me to kind of stay present. And so, I think my hope for this year is that, one, they continue to be open in their communication with me. You know, like, having teens.

Andrew: Mm hmm. Yeah.

Dr. Val: You know, you want them to remain open and I, I think we'll be able to continue to do that. And that they will find some academic “something.” Whether it's a, it's an assignment, or a whole class, or a project that they just fall madly in love with and that they're really proud of the work that they do in that class.

I haven't seen that kind of spark yet, but I'm hoping that it happens this year.

Andrew: Mmm. Those are good. Yeah. I share those particularly with the, with the seventh grader. I'm not too worried about my ability to keep talking at her, but–

[Laughter]

Andrew: –her willingness to continue to engage and continue to share her, her perspective feels like something precious that I definitely want to try to hold on to.

I have some hope for kind of as quote, unquote normal school year as we can manage. The impact of the pandemic is still with them, obviously. And it sort of, you know, gets buried further and further, the further we get away from the real traumatic piece of the pandemic. But I know that it's still in there.

And so, I think the more they can have a normal school year that just feels like a school year, feels really valuable and, and something that can start to, like, build them back up from the ways in which they were harmed by missing school, and virtual school, and all of the craziness of those early days of the pandemic.

Dr. Val: It was a wild time.

Andrew: Yeah.

So, Val, back to these themes for the season. You know, kind of a big picture, our first theme is the importance of public schools. Why is that one of our themes for this season?

Dr. Val: Yeah. We have witnessed over the past couple years now, what I would say is a real attack on not only the institution, but what students learn and the people who teach them. And I have too many people in mind who have left the classroom - exceptional teachers, because it just became too difficult to do the powerful work of teaching.

Andrew: Right.

Dr. Val: And so, when you have something like a, a teacher shortage or an exodus of this expertise and a restriction of what can be taught and the conversations that can be had, it can't help but feel like a shrinking of the institution on purpose.

Andrew: Mmm.

Dr. Val: And so, one thing that, you know, I continue to think about (again, because I'm living in the future and I need to stay present, that's definitely what a therapist would tell me)–

[Laughter]

–is that I'm about to age out, what will be my relationship with the local public schools once my kids are gone? What do I want that relationship to be?

Andrew: Mm hmm.

Dr. Val: When you don't have that personal connection, as a volunteer, or as a caregiver, or as an educator, it's easy to say, like, “Oh, this institution doesn't do anything for me.” But it's as ridiculous sounding as, “I didn't call the fire department this year! Why are we funding them?” You know? Like, it just sounds ridiculous to say that, right?

And so, continuing to talk about public schools and what they offer us, not only our young people, but our country, because you and I both believe it is a place where we can get really good at integration and practice the skills that we need to live in the world that we're trying to create.

And if we take that away because of the nature of most of our neighborhoods, we lose those opportunities to connect across difference, it becomes much more difficult to engage in a civil way with one another. And so, we have to proclaim our love for it. We really do.

Andrew: Yeah. Yeah, I totally agree. And it makes me think of a couple things. One is just, like, we have to proclaim our love for it. And, we love it enough to acknowledge that it is flawed and that it needs work and that, and that there is lots to be done to, you know, make public education live up to the promise that I think we all want for it. That we love it enough to, you know, love it into being better. And the way we love it into being better is by participating, is by showing up, and is by investing in it as an institution.

Because from the very early days of this podcast and of, you know, Integrated Schools, the organization more broadly, has been this idea that multiracial democracy requires multiracial education. That, that for us to have a multiracial democracy requires us to do education in a way that is multiracial. In a way that is, you know, sort of affirming of, of people. And so that, that has always been kind of baked into the, the, the DNA, I think, of the organization. And it always felt sort of theoretical.

And so like,”Yeah, I can see how, you know, education leads towards a more informed citizenry who can then vote and whatever,” but it always felt sort of, like, academic.

And I think what the past year or two years has shown is really, like, those threats to education are real. And I think those are directly tied to the threats to democracy. That the ways in which we are struggling to proclaim the value of public education, that we're struggling to support the institution of public education, is directly related to the ways in which we are struggling to support the idea of democracy. That we're struggling to support the idea of, of an informed, engaged citizenry.

And I don't think that that's by accident, right? I think that there are people who are deeply committed to a version of the world that does not include public education. There are a lot of people out there who are committed to a version of this country that does not include public education. And I think that, you know, whether that is directly intentionally associated with also the end of democracy, I don't know.

But I think that those things are directly linked. And so, yeah. Focusing this season on “What are the ways in which we can, we can love public education into being the best version of itself” feels like a really powerful theme.

Dr. Val: Let's go.

Andrew: Second theme we're talking about for this season is the power of storytelling.

Dr. Val: Yes.

Andrew: Why is that one of our themes?

Dr. Val: Yes. So, I think part of our hopes for us co hosting this podcast together was always about being a model to our listeners about how to engage in, in a relationship in this way where, you know, we're being really open with our own stories. It helps to develop empathy and understanding for one another.

And I think you have gotten to know me and I've gotten to know you through our stories. And that keeps us from holding, like, stereotypes or biases about one another, because I see you as such a wonderful, nuanced person who is just trying your best in the world. We have tons in common. And stories help us find those commonalities that, that we need when we're trying to build together, you know?

And so, I think that everyone has a story and that it is important for us to get a chance to listen to those stories. But those require intentionality. And so, we want to be intentional about checking in on people's stories, and understanding their stories, and how their story helped them to be wherever they are at this moment, right?

Because, quite honestly (which is kind of weird) we are part of people's stories! Like, you and I, these conversations, this podcast will become or are a part of someone's story about why they chose differently for their, their child, or how they started to think differently. And, and that's beautiful! That's beautiful.

And so, you never know what your story or part of your story will do to help someone, or build a bridge to someone, or be unforgettable to someone. And, um, and that's kind of dope. So I think empowering people to tell their stories and understand their stories, that feels, that feels like an important way to go this season.

Andrew: Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. You know, and I think, you know, sort of in, in a similar way, storytelling has always been sort of baked into, to the DNA of this show. And, you know, I mean, we, we always tend to start out with some question for somebody about, you know, like, why do you care about this? Sort of, what's your story? What led you to this thing that you now care about? I think a real sort of intentional focus on, on that piece this season feels like a way to get that heart shift.

You know, I think that, that it's one thing to provide statistics, it's one thing to provide data, and I think, you know, we, we do some of that as well. That stuff is really important, and that's good for, kind of, changing people's minds. But it's stories that change people's hearts. It's the, it's the relationship. It's the story. It's the, the thing that makes you see your shared humanity that says, “Oh, actually I don't, I don't only think differently about this. I now feel differently about this.”

So with that in mind, because stories are so powerful, one thing we definitely want to focus on this season is your stories, listeners. Some of our favorite episodes, certainly that we've recorded some of the most downloaded episodes. are these “call in” shows that we've done, the “Ask Me Anything” episodes.

And so, throughout the whole season, we really encourage you to just take a minute and shoot us a voice memo. You can go to speakpipe.com/integratedschools

S P E A K P I P E.com/integratedschools. Or just go to our website, there's a little “send voicemail” button on the side of the website. You click that, or just record us a voice memo and email it to podcast@integratedschools.org.

We would love to feature your stories, whether it's a fully fleshed out “here's this thing that happened to me,” or just, like, “Here's this thing that I've been kind of grappling with. I'm not sure what to think about.” Send them our way. We're going to try to include them on as many episodes as we can.

Dr. Val: We absolutely adore your voice memos. Like, truly. We cannot get enough of them. So keep sending them because we don't have enough of them!

[Laughter]

Andrew: We never have enough.

Dr. Val: Not only can we not get enough, we don’t get enough! So please send your voice memos in. We'd love hearing from you. And it helps us know that you're out there, and you're thinking about some of these things and grappling with some of these things.

So, give us a call.

Andrew: For sure. Theme three, Val. The power of proximity and being in community.

Dr. Val: Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. I have learned this over and over and over and over again. And, in thinking about the ways in which you are invested in your local community is just really inspiring. And so, you know, I'm not going to lie. Like, the way you talk about your neighbors, I want to talk about my neighbors.

[Andrew laughs]

And so, I get out there and I'm trying to know all my neighbors! And not only my neighbors, but, like, what is happening in the community, what's important to people in the community, and the ways in which I can show up for people in my community. And not only is that, like, a local thing, but also across difference, right?

And so–

Andrew: Yeah.

Dr. Val: –knowing that I only have one perspective, and in order to broaden that perspective, I, I just have to have different people that I call my community, that are in my community, in order to make that happen.

When you know someone, you're willing to fight with them and for them. And that makes the effort of building these relationships across difference, like, so much better.

And we need to be together! And I think you mentioned that you can no longer use the pandemic as a way to, to stay away from people. And of course, we can still engage with others and practice safety in situations where there are viruses out in the world.

And yet, we have to be there. We have to be in that proximity. It can be virtually. It can be face to face. But I think that is the way you get to know people and you get to love people.

Andrew: Yeah.

Dr. Val: I mean, that's what it's about for me.

Andrew: Totally. Right, like, why bother being alive if not for that. If not for relationships, if not for that.

I feel deep ties to my community, to my neighborhood, to my city. And, and that is, you know, largely based on the fact that I moved here when I was two. Um, I left for, whatever, 15 years or something, but then came back.

So, I think people can hear “It's really important to be in community. It's really important to get to know your neighbors to kind of become part of your community.” And then they like, get to a school and a week in, they don't feel like they're part of it. And they're like, “Ah, what am I doing wrong? I'm failing.”

And so I think it's important to, you know, to hold that out as a value to say the power of being in proximity, the power of being in community is really, really important. And it's, it's slow. It's a slow process, you know, and, and particularly if what you're looking to do is create meaningful relationships across lines of difference, it, it's a really slow process sometimes. Sometimes you might not even get there, but, like, it's worth the investment in it.

And I think when you're forming a new relationship with someone who shares a lot of your same characteristics (whether that's about race, or class or, you know, social position or whatever it is) it's easy to get to the surface level quickly, and (I found at least) also easy to stop with. That it never really goes beyond that kind of surface level. And if you put in the effort to build deeper relationships, maybe it takes more time to get there.

Maybe you have to do more kind of winning over. Maybe you have to do more just showing up and being somewhere before you kind of get the opportunity to start building relationships. But then those relationships (like you were saying, those relationships across lines of difference) are the ones that really enrich you even more.

The ones that really make your life richer, because you are being exposed to new perspectives, because you are seeing the world in a different way through somebody else's eyes.

Dr. Val: Yeah. You kind of hinted at it, in what you were just saying about how these things take a long time. You want to tell the good people about our last theme?

Andrew: Yes, our last theme. Stamina, hope, and the fear of running out of steam.

Dr. Val: Mmm.

Andrew: This can be hard work,

Dr. Val: Yeah, absolutely. So, one day I had a moment of clarity,

[Val laughs]

And I looked back at how much work I did in, from 2016 to 2022, related to, like, educational justice and racial justice work.

Andrew: Mm-hmm.

Dr. Val: And I'm like, “No wonder I'm tired!” Right? I'm like, it was a lot going on during that time. And, had I not I spent a significant portion of that time studying historical movements, I may feel like I'm losing hope at this point. Right? Because here it was, I have six years of intense, daily work to change the world. And….

Andrew: The world’s not that different.

[Andrew laughs]

Dr. Val: You look up, and you're like, “Did anything change in those six years?” And the answer is yes. Lots has, lots has changed. Some of them I will never see because they are, like, seeds that have been planted in people. They are conversations that you have. And there's different conversations that are happening now that we, I'm sure weren't having six years ago. Even when I think about something like, now I always introduce myself with my pronouns. That was not something that I did probably even, like, three years ago.

Right? Like, you know! And so, I think change is happening and it can feel painfully slow, if you expect all of it to happen as I did when I first started this work.

Andrew: Yep!

Dr. Val: That I get it fixed by, when my son was in kindergarten, that by second grade, I'd have this done. Because I'm an overachiever. Okay? I achieve! Okay?

Andrew: You go to the beach. Racial justice is solved.

Dr. Val: This is it.

And I think it can be frustrating if that is your mindset and you don't understand, one, how long these movements take.

I remember I listened to an awesome NPR story, and it was about gay marriage. And, a person 40 years ago wrote a paper and was, like, debating it in their Harvard class. And, you know, started working on the policy. And it took 40 years. But 40 years later, like, here we are. Like, I did not see this coming, right?

So I know there's lots of stories of people who have worked for decades for policies to change, or for, for anything that might seem like a small step. People are working very hard for those efforts.

Andrew: And, and even, the story about gay marriage is how quickly it, it happened, and, and there's a way in which that is true (and certainly it happened faster than other things), and it only was able to happen faster than other things because of the decades and decades of work to lay the groundwork for that.

Dr. Val: And even the story of our attempts at integration in the fifties, it is told like, like, told in like, a really small section of time that we were able to–

Andrew: “We had racist schools.”

Dr. Val: Yeah.

Andrew: “We passed Brown v. Board. We don't have racist schools anymore. The work is done.”

Dr. Val: Right! Right. And so, that's why what we teach in schools is vital. But I think that really fools people into thinking that just a couple of weeks of hard work, or just one or two conversations, and “I'll be best friends with this person who is different from me, and we'll bake pies.”

[Laughter]

You know. Um, I think that's a fallacy and I think people start to lose hope if they, if they think it's going to happen that way. And so, it takes stamina. And I think the ways in which you gain that stamina is one, understand, like, these things take time. Like, have a deep understanding of that. And two, find opportunities of joy in that, in the work. Joy in connection and, and building together.

Because I absolutely believe that we can do a lot of good with this podcast, but nothing will replace, like, the relationship that you and I have. So that whenever this podcast sunsets in another decade or so, we'll still have our relationship, right? And we'll still be willing to do work together in a way that is meaningful.

And I think we have to understand, like, you might have a project, or a moment, or a thing that you're working on, and it may or may not come to fruition in the way that you hoped, but there's still work to be done. And you can still do that with others.

Andrew: It's, like, one of the things that was so hard about the pandemic. It is in the “with others” that the stamina is built. It is in the “with others” that you find the joy that you find. And so, the ways in which the pandemic pulled us away from each other. You know, it also, like, made it, it certainly gave me far more of a skill set around building relationships over, uh, you know, a recording platform where we're in two different states. But, you know, it also, like, kept us away from, from people and kept us away from being in community.

And that's the thing that, you know, to sort of tie all of these things together, you've got public schools where (hopefully), in the public schools that we want to imagine, you can tell the story of the civil rights movement, you can tell the story of all the work that has gone to get us where, of the history that we are pushing back against, so that it is a little easier to not be discouraged when we don't change things overnight. And you can be in proximity and in community and build relationships, and then you can rely on those when you need that stamina to say, “Okay, like, I'm, this is, this is depressing. I'm ready to throw up my hands. I'm ready to say, ‘I can't do this anymore.’” But guess what? Here's somebody else who doesn't happen to be in that (because we all hit those places). But here's somebody who doesn't happen to be in that place right now and they can sort of, you know, carry me for a little bit and say, “Here we go. I'm going to do some of this work now and then I can hand it off, back off to you when you're, you know, have recovered and taking care of yourself a little bit,” because yeah, it's a marathon.

Dr. Val: It is a marathon.

Andrew: That's what we're shooting for, listeners.

Dr. Val: Yeah,

Andrew: Power of public schools. The power of storytelling. The power of proximity. And the need for stamina and the power of relationships to, to provide that stamina. So, what do you think about that? Send us your voice memos. We want to hear about it.

And we have all sorts of exciting stuff coming up. Like I said, we've already recorded a couple of episodes. We also had interns working with us this summer, which was super exciting and a new thing for the podcast. And Tadea and Jaden were awesome. We're so grateful for all of their contributions.

You'll be hearing from them on the feed coming up pretty soon. You'll be hearing from CNN journalist named John Blake, who wrote a memoir called More Than I Imagined: What a Black Man Discovered About the White Mother He Never Knew. Woo, Val! That conversation was something.

Dr. Val: Look, I got goosebumps just thinking about the conversation.

[Andrew laughs]

I got goosebumps in the conversation and then just goosebumps thinking about the conversation.

Andrew: Yeah. Great conversation about race, and coming to terms with his own biracial identity, and the power of relationships. And all of these themes actually that we've just talked about are, are all in there. The power of being in proximity, the power of being in community and stamina. Really great conversation.

The interns, both took a Latinx experience in education course at Yale and this sort of radicalized them. And so they're going to bring us some stories from their course of some things that they learned, some conversations with some of their other classmates that are really fascinating. Always a pleasure to have youth voice elevated on the podcast and, they really bring a, a great perspective.

We've got Dr. Erica Turner coming on the ways that districts respond to increasing diversity. Had a really great conversation with her and much, much more.

Dr. Val: Much more!

Andrew: So, listeners, what do you want to hear? I don't know if you can tell there's a theme here. Send us your voice memos!

[Val and Andrew laugh]

We want to hear from you!

Dr. Val: Please don't make us play crickets when we're trying to play a voice memo!

Andrew: Speakpipe.com. S P E A K P I P E dot com slash integrated schools. Send us a voice memo. Let us know what other stuff you want to hear this season. What things you're thinking about as you're kicking off your school year. What things you're worried about. What things you're not worried about!

I love, you know, what things felt like they were a big deal a year ago, or two years ago, or five years ago, that don't feel like a big deal anymore. I feel like there's such power in those things. What sorts of stories are you telling? How are you finding your way into community, or struggling to find your way into community? And, you know, what do you do when you need a little more stamina for this work, when the work gets you down?

What do you turn to? Let us know. We want to hear from you.

Dr. Val: So we had a really big event happen this summer.

Andrew: We did!

Dr. Val: That people need to know about.

Andrew: We did! We actually met in person!

Dr. Val: We actually met in person. I cannot believe it. Um, and it didn't feel real for a super long time. Um,

Andrew: But it also didn't feel weird.

Dr. Val: It did not feel weird. So, just folks, I was on, I had to go to Colorado for a work trip and I said, “Hey, why not extend the trip and go see my buddy here?” And you were super accommodating. Invited us into your home.

Andrew: It wasn't just you! Your whole family!

Dr. Val: I know! I know, my husband, the two kids. Everyone made it. Um, everyone except for Bobby Brown, our bearded dragon, who was safely boarded. You cooked for us, I learned that you can keep guacamole green by putting a red onion on it. Who knew? Who knew!

Andrew: Yeah, the internet knew, I think.

Dr. Val: We played family games. He even made me meet his parents, y'all. Nephews, everybody! We met everybody. But it was great to just be with you and your family. And like you said, it didn't feel strange at all. It felt very much like we had done this many times before.

Andrew: Yes, it was magical. I was very grateful that you were willing to come, that you were willing to bring your family into the chaos of our, of our house and stay here for a couple of nights and hang out. And, you know, I feel like I hear, hear things about your kids all the time, in our conversations, but to actually be able to put faces to the names and, um, and get to meet your husband and get to hang out all together was really, really special.

Dr. Val: I mean, who knew you and my husband liked to quote the same movie.

[Val and Andrew laugh]

It was a good time!

Andrew: It was good. There are challenges in building relationships virtually, and it’s not insurmountable challenges, obviously.

Dr. Val: Oh, absolutely not. Absolutely not. I think it, it depends on how willing all of the parties are to, to be authentic, and to be vulnerable, and to treat the virtual relationship like a real one. And if people are willing to do that, then when you finally meet in person, it's like we've just been on FaceTime in the same neighborhood this whole time!

Andrew: That's right.

Dr. Val: And I think we decided we're going to try to do an annual family trip here on out. So we'll see if we can pull it off. And this is how friendships are made and sustained. And, love to see it.

Andrew: Yes. There's. Yeah. Watching our kids play games together was definitely one of the highlights of my summer.

Dr. Val: It was a good time. It was a good time.

Andrew: For sure.

Dr. Val: We are so thrilled to be kicking off another season. Andrew, I know this will only make us better friends at the end of all of this. And I'm just really thankful that you took a shot on me, a novice podcaster. Didn't know the ropes, y'all back in the day, it was awful. I was holding my little boom mic.

It was, it's a good thing we didn't have video.

[Laughter]

Andrew: We've come, we've come a long ways!

Dr. Val: Such a long way!

Andrew: Yeah. It has been a real gift.

The final piece of this episode, listeners, is just to ask for your support. patreon.com/integratedschools. This work is, uh, certainly a labor of love, and we enjoy doing it, and it is not free.

So, if you enjoy it, if it has meant something to you, if it has given you a new way to think about the world. If it has touched your heart in some way or changed your mind in some way, we would be grateful if you would chip in a little bit! patreon.com/integratedschools. You can give us a couple bucks a month. You can give us $50 a month. You can give us $500 a month, if you want!

You can join us for podcast happy hours, for podcast discussion groups. We would be grateful for that support.

Dr. Val: And always, we would love for you to continue to share the episodes. Share with your friends. Invite people to go back into the archives and listen to previous seasons so they can get caught up. So many powerful conversations have happened and will continue to happen. And you are part of those conversations happening.

So, make sure you listen and share.

Andrew: Absolutely. Hit that follow button so you don't miss any of the exciting episodes coming and drop us a rating or review, wherever you're listening to this, it helps other people find it.

We would be grateful for that as well.

Dr. Val: We like high ratings though, so.

Andrew: Yeah, give us good ratings!

Dr. Val: if you're not sure about it, then just pass.

Andrew: Just, just err on the five star side, you know?

[Laughter]

Dr. Val: Err on the five stars.

Andrew: Err on the side of five stars, is what we ask.

[Laughter]

Val, I am so grateful for our friendship. I'm so grateful for your visit this summer, and I'm really grateful that we get to kick off another season. It is an honor to be in this with you as I try to know better and do better.

Dr. Val: Until next time.