S9E1: Back to School Transitions – Season 9 Kick Off!

S9E1: Back to School Transitions

Andrew: Welcome to the Integrated Schools podcast. I'm Andrew, a White dad from Denver.

Dr. Val: And I'm Val, a Black mom from North Carolina.

Andrew: And this is Back to School Transitions!

Dr. Val: Oooooh! I love that title.

Andrew: Val we are back! Season nine. Here we are, very excited to be back.

Dr. Val: I'm so glad to be back. I can't believe that we are already in school again, and um, it seems like things are starting to feel more normal than less… post pandemic-ish wherever we are right now.

Andrew: Midpoint of later on in the who knows pandemic-ish. Yeah for sure. Yeah. So yeah we're back, season nine. Val has returned for another season. We're very excited about that.

Dr. Val: Thank you for having me.

Andrew: Absolutely… you invited yourself I didn't really have much choice.

Dr. Val: I did. [laughs]

Andrew: Very glad to have you. And yeah we thought we'd talked today just about transitions, about you know the transition to a new season of the podcast. Transitioning back to school. Both of us have kids who transitioned to new schools this year so we're gonna talk about that a little bit. You know we also are now, our kids are getting older so thinking about, kind of new forms of parent engagement. Transitioning to thoughts about our kids being decision makers on their own as they get older which is also, uh, something new. And then we've got some of your thoughts about the transition that you're going through right now that we're gonna share. So we got a great episode planned here.

Dr. Val: That sounds fantastic! And I want to encourage listeners to keep calling in when they have things that they wanna say. We love incorporating your voices so leave us a voice memo about something that's on your mind and we'll consider adding it.

Andrew: That's right. Find that voice memo's app on your phone hit record and email it off to podcast@integratedschools.org. We always like hearing from you listeners.

So you're back.

Dr. Val: I am.

Andrew: School year has started. Remind us where your kids are in school.

Dr. Val: Absolutely. So I had a son that entered ninth grade… high school this year. Man. And, I think all summer I was kind of grappling with what that meant. I know that four years goes by quickly right? So elementary is like the longest time that a kid is in a school and then middle school is a snap, and then high school, so much is happening, and so quickly and, for my son in particular, we were moving, and so he wanted to try to stay in the area where the middle school fed into the high school so that he could have some friends going into the school.

He's a super easy going kid and doesn't ask for a whole lot. So we really tried in our house hunt to find a place that would feed into that school. Thankfully we were able to find an integrated neighborhood and uh, he's just a short two mile drive away that I get to do before the sun rises every morning.

[Andrew laughs]

Shout out to high school doing that. Like why? Why? So that has been I think a big emotional, mothering kind of deal cuz, you know like you're like trying to prepare your child to leave the home and do great things. And I find myself doing things like talking to him about how we're driving and, or teaching him how to make nachos so he is not hungry when he leaves me. Right?

So these conversations are shifting for us in a way that… How do we help our kids become more independent? You know? And that's it's wonderful and I'm just, I'm feeling grateful for where he is.

My daughter also, um, a sense of independence, applied for and got into our district's art school. It's still majority students of color, and it's in a Black neighborhood.

So she applied to do visual arts. This is her first time, kind of going to a school that her brother hasn't also gone to. So she is…

Andrew: She gets to be her own person instead of his little sister.

Dr. Val: … Yeah…stretching her wings there and, um, so excited to see her kind of coming into herself. Watching our kids start to make these decisions around their friend groups and, um, the type of people they want to be, especially as we're striving to be anti-racist parents and helping them along the way.

Andrew: Tell us a little more about the high school that your son is at. It's the neighborhood high school, in the neighborhood you live in there’s not a…

Dr. Val: Correct.

Andrew: …choice process. What do the demographics look like?

Dr. Val: Yeah. Um, so not a school choice process for that one. Like I said, I live in an integrated neighborhood, but you would not know that based on the high school. Whenever I drop him off, I'm like this is a Black school. Like, I only see Black and Brown kids going into the school. He is like, yeah. And I find that interesting.

Um, a couple of things, and I think this might be across the district, both of our kids have to go through body scanners… is what they're calling them at school every morning. Um…

Andrew: A polite way of saying metal detectors.

Dr. Val: Correct. And so I'm watching the kids kind of like file through that and, processing any number of emotions about what that means for them and what they think about it. I think our children, they've grown up with unfortunately too many school shootings to count. So I think for some… in some way they feel like it makes them safer. Whereas you know as a parent, it's like, you know, why, why can't we fix the things outside so our kids don't have to go through body scanners when they go into the school building.

But he has uh, loved all of his classes so far. I wanna say he has at least 80% teachers of color. Um so, um he has significant numbers of teachers of color, um, that he gets to learn with and from.

His first day of school, he cracks me up. He came home and he was like, “Mom.” and I was like, “What?” He's like “I walked in the fourth period, I was a little bit late cause I was getting lost, and I walked in and there were grown men in this class!”

[Val laughs]

He's like “They had full beards and mustaches.”

[Andrew laughs]

He's like “They were seniors and juniors.” It's a science class and I forgot to warn him, you know, these classes will be mixed sometimes. Right. He said him and his ninth grade friend, they went back and checked the number on the door to make sure they were in the right spot. Yeah, they were like, there are grown men in this class. But um, yeah but he's having a good time.

Um, he's joined the cross country team, which, um, is a diverse group of kids. So he has a diverse team that he's a part of, that he's really enjoying. And, um, and I think he's finding his way, right? He's finding his way both in a school that is the global majority, Black and Brown, like one of his classes is all Black students, to learning how to navigate spaces like his multiracial cross country team and you know, figuring that all out in real time.

And um, I'm just, yeah, it's just interesting to be on this side of it, where your young people are coming with like their own questions and ideas and processing it, and you're not the only one kind of like probing them to ask them these questions, that they're coming with these ideas. And I think it's neat. It's been neat.

Andrew: Yeah. And that was the school he wanted to go to?

Dr. Val: Correct.

Andrew: And it happens to be your neighborhood school and it happens to be a global majority school. Maybe we can talk about your daughter a little bit, because she's using the school choice process. She's opting out of your neighborhood school for this arts program. It is still a global majority school it is still, um…

Dr. Val: It's in a Black neighborhood. It's not even in an integrated neighborhood. Mm-hmm.

Andrew: How did you sort of think about that? Supporting her through that choice? Is there like a line you would've drawn somewhere if she was like, “I want to go to Our Lady of Reluctant Integration private school.” Like what's you know…

Dr. Val: Yeah. We hadn't even heard about the school. So that's one thing that, um, probably should be talked about. You know we were new to the state. We didn't know about the high school or even like the choice process. And, she was fine at our homeschool and they were close enough to walk. Now I have to drive 25 minutes so that I might have talked her out of.

But it was a Black woman that I was working with on a project who said “Have you heard about this school? It's a wonderful school. It's in a Black neighborhood. And here are the wonderful things that are happening at the school.” So a wonderful program where young people who love the arts are being nourished and cared for. We hadn't heard of it. And I was like, okay, let's check it out. We did like an open house and there was a Black…

Andrew: Wait, wait you went on a tour?

Dr. Val: I did!

[both laugh]

Andrew: See what's happened??

Dr. Val: I did.. I did. I only went to the one okay. And when we got there there was a Black male visual arts teacher who was like, “Hey, you know, you definitely have a place here. Come here… Let's you know… would love to have you audition and get into the school.” So um she did, she was able to get in and, it felt like because she had worked so hard to go through that whole process that we ought to give it a shot as a family to make it work, and that's what we're trying to do.

So the school itself is 6 through 12. She's an eighth grader. So she knows that, you know, if this year it just doesn't feel right, she has her home school, and again, the comfort of her brother attending the school. And it being in the neighborhood to kind of fall back on.

So uh we try really hard to support the kids and each of their aspirations. And this was one way to do that. You know, could we have gotten her art classes? I mean I guess, but this just seemed like a unique experience where there was a lot of dynamic things happening in a public school space that we wanted to allow her to take part in.

Andrew: Right. Yeah. That that piece of wanting to, you know, support them in their independence and support them in their taking the initiative and kind of driving their own decisions.

Dr. Val: And you know, if she did ask to go to a school that we felt would've been harmful for her racial identity development or sense of self, we would've talked to her about that.

If there is like, an academic gap or experience gap, because of our level of privilege, like, we can do that. You know like, we're both formally educated parents, you know, we have access to things that, um, I'm sure many other families do not. And so, you know, if the school is like a C school… whatever that means… um, that that is not a problem to me. What would be a problem to me is if every day in and out she's facing micro and macro aggressions from other people, the staff, the curriculum, and she's losing a sense of self… even if that was like, considered an A school right….

Andrew: Which, which just like as an aside, speaks to how broken our school rating system is, right. That you could have a school that is actively harming a student's sense of self every single day, and we would still call that an A school.

Dr. Val: Correct. And so we would've had very like open conversations about what that meant and, you know, I'm thinking now, my area of privilege specifically around knowing how school systems work, and schools work, and so I would've been able to talk, you know, very honestly about “Hey here's the data about how little Black girls achieve or don't in this space. And, this is why it's important for us to make sure you're in a space where this does not happen to you.”

Andrew: And that wouldn't have felt like out of the blue to her, right? Like that is like a continuation. This yeah speaks to me again of like, the power of always having these conversations of planting little seeds that, you know, bloom sometimes a little bit or sometimes a long bit later because this would've felt like a continuation of a conversation that you were always having.

Dr. Val: Yep. Absolutely. And you know when I check in with my kiddos and their friend groups I am asking them explicitly about who their friends are, racial identity, kind of where they live, what they like to do, because I do want to know that they are not only isolating themselves to any one group of people. And I think they're able to do that without thinking twice about it because of, you know the model that I provide them right? Like I have interracial friend groups and it's not odd at all. And you know they come to the house. And so it's not strange. So I think you know if a parent does not also have those authentic friend groups and they're expecting that from their kiddos, you know, I'm just curious about how that, I'm just curious about how that looks and feels and works, you know, and if it's something that comes up. But I want them to have a diverse group of friends, and I want them to have different experiences.

Andrew: I think about like, Beverly Daniel Tatum and Why Are All the Black Kids Sitting Together in the Cafeteria? The sort of transition to middle school for kids is a time of, where they are drawn to kids who are like them, and want to have those kind of, um, those kind of relationships. Um, but your kids were able to kind of push through that a bit.

Dr. Val: Yeah, I'm wondering if in middle school when that first started to happen if they felt like they could join a multiracial group or…

Andrew: Mmmmm

Dr. Val: …not, you know? For my daughter in particular, she was identified as, or labeled, or whatever word we wanna use, as gifted in elementary school, very early on. And that often put her as one of two in, like gifted classes. And so all of her friends, by default, were always like a multiracial group of people. And so she just did that regularly and it wasn't strange for her. And so I'm wondering if she felt that when she got to middle school? If she felt like she could no longer do that. And that's a question I haven't asked her explicitly. I don't know.

Andrew: This is yeah, this is great. I'm like sparking all these conversations that I feel like I need to have with my, my oldest in particular now.

Dr. Val: Let's talk about your kiddos. Yea, tell me about…

Andrew: Yeah, so my youngest is in third grade at the same school… the school that I went to. She's been there since she was three years old. This is like her sixth start of a school year. So she's in her thing, it's like no big deal. She is also by nature just kind of laid back and easygoing. So there's been very little drama for the start of the year for her. It just feels like yet another year.

My oldest started, uh, middle school this year. She's in sixth grade and it's going great so far. You know we're only a couple weeks in but she's enjoying it and likes kind of feeling like a bit of a big kid now. You know, they get to, they have to get themselves between classes and she was like, “It's so weird at the end of the day the bell rings, and then like you just leave. You don't have to give your teacher a fist bump or like, wave goodbye once you see your parent or anything you just like, go with everyone.” So there's a lot about that that's great.

The school itself is a global majority school. Its demographics match our district demographics almost exactly. And it's like I wanna say 25% white, it's 65% free and reduced price lunch. And it's small, which is one of the things that we really liked about it. Her elementary school, when we started there was very small as well. So it's, I think it's 180 kids.

Dr. Val: Oh wow!

Andrew: The whole middle school. Yeah. They're trying to grow. So they're, you know, they would like to be 350 or 400 kids, but they're sort of slowly building up a program. So it felt like a great opportunity. It is not our default school, I do have to drive her there every day which is less than ideal, but it felt like a great community. It felt like it was not, we were not like taking a spot away from somebody else in a coveted school.

So yeah it feels like a great school. I toured one other school. The vibe here is everybody has to make a choice for middle school. You're not assigned to one school you're assigned to like a group of 8 or 10 schools. And you have to fill out a choice form that ranks which ones you want to be at, in the order that you wanna be at them. That choice form allows you to rank up to 12 schools which I just like, can't wrap my mind around how you would like, say this is my 11th most preferred school and this is my 12th most preferred school.

I toured one other school. I hated it. And…

Dr. Val: Why'd you hate it?

Andrew: So, I went to the tour. It was early on in like, the kind of school choice process. So it was like the people who were like, really into the school touring, school choice thing, which tends to be Whiter parents. The student body itself is 80% kids of color, but almost all White parents in the audience. It was in the evening. I think 18 of the school's teachers showed up for this tour. Which was sort of amazing except that, apart from one Asian woman, they were all White teachers, and something about the vibe of this entirely White teaching core, which I know happens in many many places, but teaching in 80% students of color student body didn't feel great.

Dr. Val: Mm-hmm. I'm thinking about what you just mentioned in terms of the go-getter parents and early in the school choice and just my own um experience of not knowing that the art school was an option. And just thinking about knowledge hoarding and how we can do a better job, because I think some people might leave that open house thinking “Oh, no Black parents, or no parents of color care about getting their kids into the school cuz they didn't come to open house that I came to,” when that could not be it at all. It literally just so happened that I was talking to someone working on a project who lives in California who happened to go to school here. You know what I mean?

Andrew: Who happened to know about it…

Dr. Val: yeah, yeah yeah um, or I wouldn't have known either so…

Andrew: Right.

Dr. Val: Yeah

Andrew: How information travels is really interesting.

Dr. Val: Yeah, and staying true to how we kind of talk about our racial identities and how that information is passed, and that what we deem to be a good school or a bad school. I absolutely count on my friends of color to let me know if a school is gonna be harmful to children of color.

Andrew: You can't look that up. The state website doesn't have any of that information.

Dr. Val: Right. I'm counting on those types of conversations to happen, and whereas the conversations the group of parents that you might previously have kicked it with, you know might have like different things to say about it.

Andrew: Yeah, we rely so much on word of mouth…

Dr. Val: Yeah.

Andrew: …on people who we feel similar to and what they think about it. But the quickness with which somebody… I like, overheard this snippet of a conversation… somebody was like, asking about a different school and they were like, “Oh that's kind of like this one school but sort of like with a little bit of this other school mixed in.”

Dr. Val: Mmm

Andrew: And both of those people in that conversation knew exactly what that meant.

Dr. Val: Mm-hmm

Andrew: It definitely had racial undertones, neither of them said anything about race. And I'm sure that person who had previously known nothing about that other school, now feels like they know all they need to know to not bother looking at that school.

Dr. Val: Yeah

Andrew: And that happens really quickly, and without…. I would guess that neither of those parents remember that conversation. And yet both of them have like, solidified an idea about a school that they've never seen, in their minds because of it.

Dr. Val: That's tough. And I know those conversations happen all the time and it's kind of exhausting to have to defend Black and Brown learning spaces, right? Like there's good things happening here. There's good kids here. There's…

Andrew: Right

Dr. Val: Same… same thing… Same thing.

Andrew: Right. Right. Yeah. It's school. Guess what? There's kids and there's teaching and there's… Yeah… Um yeah it's one of the things I like about the kind of the, the idea behind the Two Tour Pledge that we do is like, go to the school that you might not otherwise go to, take a look at it and then like tell some people that you know in your social circle three good things about it.

Dr. Val: mm-hmm

Andrew: Don’t make them up, and if there's things that you don't like about it, that's fine too. But don't lead with those, you know, go and like, help spread the word that there are… cuz there are good things in all schools.

Dr. Val: Yep. Every single one.

Andrew: You'd be hard pressed to find a school that you couldn't find something.

Dr. Val: Every single one.

Andrew: Go and just like spread the word about it.

Dr. Val: Yeah, I'm curious too, um if folks who have done the pledge or planning to do the pledge would consider like, before they go, jotting down some ideas about what their expectations are of a good school right?

Andrew: Mmm

Dr. Val: I'm curious you know if folks have an understanding of what their own ideas are about that and if they go in and they don't see you know a recording studio, or like brand new instruments if that's already you know…

Andrew: Are they already done with it?

Dr. Val: Yeah yeah yeah Mm-hmm.

Andrew: Well, so far it has been, it has been a good school… like I said we had Back to School night last night. You know, I've been trying to sort of leave her some space to be herself at the school you know? Like she had no choice in where she went to elementary school. We decided where she was gonna go. You know, when they're really little you have to like, actually go in and sign them in and out. So like I was very much a part of their school experience in elementary school.

Dr. Val: I feel that.

Andrew: And, you know we'll end up being parents at that elementary school for a decade between the two kids. So like, it's a it's a long investment and I'm struck already at just how easy it is to not show up at all in middle school. I drop her off. She gets out of the car. She walks in. You know, a couple days a week she walks over to her friend's house, or I pull up and I pick her up and she walks out and gets in the car. But there's no… I'm not… yesterday was the first time I had been in the building for back to school night. And part of that is I like, wanted to leave her some space to like, so she can be herself in the school. But yeah I'm also just struck about with like, the ways that parent involvement evolves as your kids get older.

Dr. Val: Absolutely. They must have known I was going to ask for lots of support, but the high school… They sent lots of support for incoming ninth graders. My son participates in athletics and so that was another opportunity for us to like, get connected right away in the high school. And so I think they did a really good job with trying to connect with incoming ninth graders specifically. I don't know how, you know, will they do moving forward, but I thought they did a really good job of inviting us into the space and trying to keep us connected.

And I can say the same for my daughter's school, right? And so I feel like there have been numerous opportunities to at least hear from the school, right? Maybe not participate in the same way that you can in elementary school, cause they're always seeking volunteers and you know there's always something to do. Um I trust that that will happen. And I'm wondering about both the pandemic changing that dynamic for a lot of places. And then just generally the increase in trying to keep kids safe and strangers out of buildings, you know?

Andrew: Mm-hmm

Dr. Val: How that has also changed the ways in which schools are able to engage parents just during the day you know?

Andrew: Right. Do you know other parents at the school?

Dr. Val: So at the high school I know one other parent because my son went to middle school and they are both on the athletic team. Um, at the middle school, okay I might be a stalker here I go I'll tell you what happened. So it's the first day of school, I'm coming home from dropping my son off, I see a Black woman and a high school student with an instrument standing on the corner. I was like, “Is this the bus stop for the art school?” And they're like, “Yeah.” You know… and so I got to know them and meet them. Um, my daughter does not ride the bus right now but if she ever needed to, now I have someone in the neighborhood who has a child who’s a couple grades older and I feel like okay I've made a connection to at least one other parent in the school

But those are the, those are the only two. And I think it speaks to the just… I don't know, all the kids in my son's classes. You know when it's an elementary class you got 18 or less and you can know 'em all you know? Like that's not that's not ever gonna happen again. And so I'm learning them, or trying but it's not it's not nearly as easy to force those relationships

Andrew: Yeah, I wonder if there's less pressure and this is probably a White thing too, but I think in elementary school in particular like there's this push that your social circle is, part of it is logistics, is just like the time in the day. If you gotta be at the school all day, you know to drop off and pick up anyway like you may as well make friends with those people there. But I do think there's this like, sense of like I need my social circle to be tied to my kid's school.

Dr. Val: Mm-hmm…

Andrew: I felt a little bit, and there's definitely some gender stuff in here too Right? Like I didn't feel it as much in elementary school I think, because being a dad and not a mom, that like, there's like a pressure for a good mom is a mom who knows all of the other moms. But even now, like the idea, I don't know any, I know one, I know two other parents who are the two kids who were at my daughter's elementary school with her.

Dr. Val: Yeah I certainly felt that pressure when my kids were in daycare and pre-K, so like they started pretty young and it was like the same group of parents. And we did everything together you know like every weekend with all the kids and I felt that pressure then.

Andrew: That was a largely White group of parents right?

Dr. Val: Oh we were the only Black family in that group. Yeah yeah yeah. We were the only Black family in that group and I felt that pressure then. I think there's also this pressure to make sure your kids like, have the right friends right? And so when they're younger you're doing that vetting for them as kids, you know kind of learn how to meet people and how to kind of read people or whatever…

Andrew: Judge character…

Dr. Val: Yeah for sure. And I think the older they get you're hoping that all of the lessons that you talked about are settling for them and you know they can start to to judge character in a way that you feel comfortable with who they select in terms of like who they're gonna hang out with but that's nerve wracking for sure. Right?

Andrew: And it does feel, yeah like the stakes get higher the older they get.

Dr. Val: And I've always wanted to be the parent where “please come hang out at this house” you know like um, I'll have… you'll have full range of the fridge and whatever just come be here so that I know you're safe and you know I get to meet the people that you're hanging out with. And so I hope to still be that particular parent.

Andrew: Yeah so we were at Back to School night last night it was like the first time I've set foot inside the building. My oldest, she went to the school with her kind of best friend from elementary school who is a Black girl, a transracial adoptee with White parents.

Dr. Val: Mm-hmm

Andrew: And then one other friend, that’s sort of, you know her crew when she arrived in middle school. And then you know I started to hear names of people… “Oh yeah, we hung out with so and so at lunch today.” And got to Back to School night and like got to meet these kids…

Dr. Val: How was that?

Andrew: …and they're all White.

Dr. Val: Mmm. [long pause] Were you surprised?

Andrew: [deep breath] Um [ pause] I don't know that I was surprised. I think if you had asked me, was that going to happen? I probably would've guessed that it might. And I think I was still a little bit like, Ooh. Okay. There's probably a conversation that needs to be had here.

Dr. Val: So I'm wondering, you know, middle school is often the place where there are multiple elementary schools that feed into it, like for the first time, and I'm wondering if all of these kids kind of went to segregated schools or racially isolated schools, and they're all now thrown into this integrated space for the first time themselves And they're working out how to have these cross racial relationships. Do you know if that's the case?

Andrew: I don't know where all the kids come from… what schools. I mean my daughter's school was very integrated.

Dr. Val: Mm-hmm

Andrew: The middle school is not like the desirable school that all the White kids who are in White segregated elementary schools end up going to. That school is like two blocks from our house. It would be incredibly, incredibly convenient if that's where she went.

Dr. Val: Right.

Andrew: But we did not feel comfortable sending her there. So yeah I'm sure there are Black and Brown kids who have not had many White kids in school with them up till this point.

Dr. Val: And so the question becomes, and this is you know just with my professional hat on like a push that I try to make for educators. Like it becomes the adults to try to help them figure out how to establish these friendships and when they may not have ever done that before. Right? So whether you're a caregiver or parent or an educator and you see young people trying to figure out how to make this work cuz we can't just assume that throwing them in the same space…

Andrew: … is enough.

Dr. Val: Yeah, yeah for sure.

Andrew: Yeah. Yeah it's interesting. Yeah I think, yeah the conversation we've had today leads me to want to have some more conversations with her about it. Cause I do think there's you know there's a piece of it… It's like a brand new middle school that's overwhelming enough. You go with like, what's easy and what's easy is like let me find somebody who has a similar life experience to me. The first work of building a relationship is much easier in that scenario. And so yeah I think there's probably room for school leaders to do it and probably room for her to think about “Okay, like where, where do I feel comfortable kind of pushing myself a little bit?” Maybe not being quite so comfortable you know in the hopes that this leads to some sort of deeper more meaningful relationship.

Dr. Val: And Andrew if I'm honest when I first started asking questions specifically about, “Hey do you have any White kids in class?” It was because I wanted to see if the school was like segregating the kids by race and tracking them. And when they would say like no, but, I knew White kids went to the school. That was like a red flag that would go off in my head like okay, well let me do some investigation about like, why this is the case.

So I think that's why I became comfortable just asking explicitly but it was only because of my experience knowing that you know, kids get tracked by race and I just knew enough to ask. Right? So I'm encouraging parents to don't be afraid to just ask explicitly like, “What is the makeup of your class? How's it going?” You know if you are integrating a global majority school and your White kid is still only around White students, that's not… that doesn't count.

Andrew: Right.

Dr. Val: You know? So um, so yeah.

Andrew: Yeah, yeah. There isn't… partly the school is just too small for much in school segregation. Like at the classroom level there just like, aren't even enough kids for that. But I do, yeah I do feel like yeah I need to have some conversations with her about, uh, about who she's hanging out with.

Well that is a lot of transitions for both of us Val, thank you for sharing the story.

Dr. Val: Thank you.

Andrew: But we are not the only ones who have had transitions. And so we put out the call, we got some great voice memos and we're gonna listen to 'em.

Dr. Val: I love this part! Thank you all for calling us!

Andrew: So let's start with this from Dana in Jersey city

Dana: My name is Dana. I'm a white mom from Jersey City, New Jersey. I really enjoy this podcast and I thank you for all the work that you put into it. I'm feeling great about the new school year. My son was very excited to go back to school, to see his friends, to meet his new teacher, to spend time on the playground across the street from the school.

I have made the choice to send my son to public school. Our public schools in Jersey city are more than 80% kids of color, and the majority of kids in the schools qualify for free or reduced lunch. So we are a district with massive needs. And I'm very proud to be part of a group called Jersey City Together Education Team that has been fighting for our schools to be fully funded, and for that funding to be spent equitably. And we have had a lot of victories recently, for example, we just got 89 million sent back from the state to our local public schools. And so I'm very excited about that.

I'm worried about the future. I am worried about the way that people discuss public schools and the vitriol that some politicians have for them, even in a state that thinks of itself as progressive. Like here in New Jersey, I am worried about how the funding is going to go in the future. It is, uh, always an uphill battle to have people understand that that is part of what you do to be, be in a community and to take care of community. It's always hard to convince people that raising taxes is something that is your duty as part of a community. So I'm worried about that. I'm worried about the future of funding.

And also the way that public schools are being talked about all over the country. I hope that people understand that we can only have a democracy when we have public schools that are well funded and that are allowed to teach history and teach things that may not be easy to hear, but are important to understand where our country's been and where it's going.

So I worry about all of those things, but I am very glad that there are supportive parents in the public schools here and that we have a community to work together. I'm very thankful for that.

Andrew: Thanks Dana!

Dr. Val: Let's give it up for Dana in Jersey City, Together Education Team!

Andrew: Right?

Dr. Val: That’s what's up!

Andrew: $89 million, I mean I don't know how big the district is but that's real money.

Dr. Val: Yeah and I love that her child is excited about seeing their friends and hanging out in the playground. All things that young people should have to worry about which is friends and good teachers, right?

Andrew: Yeah, I love that that's where she starts, right? It's like my kid is excited to go back to school and I'm excited about that and that's great. There's also these other things that I'm worried about and I think there are things that probably everybody who cares about public education and democracy either is or should be worried about. And that's real. And our kids still get to go to school and there is joy that can be found in schools.

Dr. Val: I just wanna thank Dana for participating in not only her local community but in dialogue with other people in helping them to understand how important it is to talk about how much our public schools do offer not only young people but our country.

Andrew: Yeah.

Dr. Val: And I think we should be concerned about the ways in which people are talking about public schools especially, um, because I feel like that's also coded language right? We know that…

Andrew: Mm-hmm

Dr. Val: The majority of our public schools are Black and Brown, and if you talk about them as failing and et cetera and we can't learn or can't function or you know all of those things are sending a message and it's making people afraid and having them divest from these public institutions that we all need.

Andrew: Yep. Yeah. Thank you Dana!

Dr. Val: Awesome

Andrew: Let's take a lesson to Susan in Lancaster.

Susan: Hi everybody. This is Susan from Lancaster, Pennsylvania, and I'm personally feeling really good right now. Um, our child is in the eighth grade at a local, middle school and he's just having a really great start of the year. He's got excellent teachers. There's really good community at the school and I'm feeling really good. Although there's an underlying sense of worrying concern because we continue to shrink as a school district. As more private schools open up in our area and as parents continue to make choices around leaving our school district for districts or schools that are more affluent and more White, I am kind of worried, but I'm personally happy with the choice that we've made and we will continue to make, to keep our child here in our local school district.

And I would also say. I am worried about the future of our public education system just in general. I'm worried about our school district, losing staff and teachers. We are down lots of school psychologists and our school lost, I think maybe four or five teachers. So I am worried about that. And I'm worried that we are not doing the best job recruiting new teachers and especially like a diverse array of teachers.

I just think public schools in general are facing just so many challenges and it's hard for our district not to feel that. On the other hand, what I'm really excited about is a large group of us from across the state really came together to fight for adequate funding for our school districts here in Pennsylvania. And we had a historic increase this past year. And that's exciting to think about what we could do with that money. It's still not enough. We're still really, really, really underfunded just as a state. But, I am excited about just having those extra resources for all of our kids and, what that can mean, but overall kind of worried about the way that our district is shrinking and the way that parents continue to kind of abandon a lot of kids in our community. Thanks.

Andrew: Very similar story.

Dr. Val: Yeah. Yeah.

Andrew: Jersey city… Lancaster, Pennsylvania… both the joy and the fear.

Dr. Val: Yeah. And I'm glad that we're elevating these stories so people don't feel alone right? You're not alone in Jersey City. You're not alone in Lancaster like trying to fight this battle. It's sad and also a little comforting that these conversations are happening everywhere, right? And so how do we continue to elevate these stories and get people connected so they feel like… Hey I think they should be friends I think we've decided they should be friends.

Andrew: Yes, Dana and Susan you are now friends. It has been decided.

Dr. Val: It has been decided.

Andrew: And I think also it speaks to me of our sort of adaptation of “show up shut up stay put,” which is you know “show up, listen, speak up, stay put.” They are both in cities where they are staying put, they are still in global majority public schools supporting that in their neighborhood, and speaking up you know going and and advocating on behalf of better funding going and, you know lending their voices

Dr. Val: I love it.

Andrew: I think it's great. Let's listen to Molly in Columbus.

Molly: So about this new school year, I'm feeling hopeful. I feel nervous. I also feel relieved. I feel a lot of relief. Um, we chose for this school year to move our daughters from a private preschool and a public lottery, progressive school that I'd call diverse, to a neighborhood school in the neighborhood just south of ours, that doesn't concentrate resources relative to the district.

And, it took a long time to make that choice. And a lot of wrangling between me and my partner, but we just didn't wanna contribute to segregation and just do what White people have continually done in this city anymore with our individual choices. And now our daughters are one of the only, or one of a few, White, privileged students in their classes in a beautiful school that we're excited to join.

So in terms of what I'm feeling worried about, I mean, I'm feeling worried about all the things that I wish that I could say that I wasn't worried about. Like I'm worried about, you know, the differences between a progressive school and a, and a, you know, regular neighborhood school, um, behavior charts and homework and I'm worried about, you know, whether I'm still gonna have moments where I feel like we're a little bit crazy for doing something that nobody that we currently know is doing.

But I also feel really hopeful about the prospect of my children making friends. Um, they already have talked about some new friends that they've been making at their new school. And that makes me feel just really hopeful for our future, that they get to, so young in life, start making some cross racial friendships and hopeful for our family, that we can really do our part to contribute to solidarity across our city. And, fighting for equitable public education for all kids. There was a big teacher strike in our city and the city really came out to support the teachers hugely. And it was amazing to see everybody talking about what they want for all kids, instead of just my kids. And I feel hopeful that we're gonna try to be part of real solidarity to make that a reality and not just solidarity within our White enclave, and really kind of make, make things better, not just for my kids, but for all of us and to make this city better for all the children.

Dr. Val: That was fantastic. You know what I loved about it was just Molly wrestling with the nuance of it you know, it's hopeful and it's scary and it's, no one else we know is doing this and, am I going to find the community? Is this going to be what's best for my young people? I think connecting on that from a human level is just really important for each of us to remember that we are grappling… like these same ideas for our children. And the choice to choose solidarity can be a scary one and it shouldn't be.

Andrew: Right. Yeah I love just her vulnerability in sharing that you know the behavior charts and the homework. But that the hope for solidarity and not just kind of within your own little White enclave solidarity but real meaningful cross racial solidarity is kind of what is drawing her in there and what you know, is providing the hope to kind of counteract that. But there isn't an easy solution right and I think that's part of what makes it feel hard is that we're told that there is an easy solution which is “go to the quote unquote best school…

Dr. Val: Mm-hmm

Andrew: …go to the school that has the most whatever”… and that's not actually a good answer. We often talk about, like, what we're selling here is a bad product right? Like there isn't an easy solution. I wish it was like, here's the easy answer: just do this instead of this other thing but it's not, it's always hard. It's always… there's always nuance in it.

Dr. Val: Yeah. Thanks Molly For for sharing that.

Andrew: Yeah. Uh let's hear from Emily in Denver.

Emily: So this year we moved our younger two kids to a more integrated school uh, but our eldest child is staying at a very White segregated school. So it's been challenging to balance those two environments and those two school cultures, which are very, very different from each other.

But it has been in general, a very good experience because the integrating school is everything that we hoped so far. And so that's very validating. We were very worried that, uh, we were going from one negative environment to potentially another one. And having our kids change schools is a big deal. So, we're pleasantly validated in that decision and still supporting our child at the segregated school in the same ways that we always have so that she can still be in a healthy environment and ready to go to a more integrating middle school next year.

Andrew: Thank you Emily. I think that you know the thing that sticks out to me about this is it's not like you make one decision to choose an integrating school and then your, like your work is done and then you get to just like, coast. You know? She's had to make a decision to move her kids but not all of them because you know like every kid is different. Every family's different, every circumstance is different. It's easy to say choose a global majority school if you're a white parent and everybody's got stories that are, you know, complicate that a little bit. But I think this is something that you said last season that like at the end of every school year, you're asking yourself was this the right place? Do we need to do something new? Do we need to do something new? And you know Emily is living in that right now is like okay it's time for something new. We can't do something new for everybody because there are these other things, but we're gonna do something new when it comes to middle school. And in the meantime we're gonna kind of make the most out of both of the places where we are.

Dr. Val: Yeah. And um, I'm really glad that the global majority school is… she’s happy with it you know? Um as many of those testimonies as we can get.

Andrew: Yeah. All right. Thank you Emily. Let's hear from Courtney in Brooklyn.

Courtney: Hi Integrated Schools. I'm a parent in Brooklyn, New York, and I've got two kids starting two new schools this year, feeling hopeful about it. We're able to walk our pre-K-er into the building, which hasn't happened since before the pandemic. And my middle schooler got into our neighborhood school the day before school started. So he's walking to and from school by himself. Our family is all White and we've chosen not to segregate our kids into mostly White or middle class spaces for their schooling. The choice was easy for our elementary schooler because the school's on our corner and our older son had just gone there for seven years. For middle school, it felt harder because in our district, there are only two schools that don't have an over representation and concentration of Whiteness. And so while everyone we knew was choosing among schools and seeing what their kids liked best, we felt really attached to sending our son to the neighborhood middle school as well. And I definitely felt pangs of envy for parents that felt that there was a lot of choice in front of them.

Worried about the middle schooler, making friends, having someone to play with that recess, feeling a sense of belonging. And for the pre-K-er I'm mostly concerned about him cursing in class. Also worried and excited about showing up at the schools. At the elementary school I'm kind of hoping to reset my reputation as maybe someone who speaks boldly, but outside of relationship. So I'm hoping to show up with more of my own humanity, um, getting to know people and excited for where that will lead. Okay, Thanks Integrated Schools.

Dr. Val: Thank you Courtney.

Andrew: Thanks Courtney. The hope that your, that your Pre-K-er won't swear in class is great. I think we can all relate to that (laughing)

Dr. Val: Definitely. Definitely can't tell a little kid anything because you know what? Everybody will know. I'm just connecting with Courtney's comment about envious of feeling like there was a choice.

Andrew: Mmm

Dr. Val: Like I connect to that on a deep deep level. And um, not in these particular choices that I was able to make this year but you know in the past I have not at all felt like it was a choice… like at all you know? This year's probably the first time that it really felt like a choice that we had a little more autonomy to act upon. And so that's just really intriguing to me cuz it sounded like she said that with the idea like, “no we are not choosing one of these schools that is steeped in Whiteness.” And so now we have two options or one option, right? Um, and yeah that feels very very familiar.

Andrew: Yeah. For sure. Yeah I also, I love the idea of taking a reset. That just because you have shown up in one way doesn't mean that you'd have to continue to show up in that way. And so I mean a new school is a great opportunity to think about showing up in a different way, but you can also just decide that you're gonna show up in a different way in the current school that you've been at. I mean she said she's been there for seven years.

All right! We got one more. Let's hear from Meredith in Minneapolis.

Meredith: Hi, this is Meredith from Minneapolis. This is our second year in a global majority magnet school. And we are trying to be integrating members of that community. Um, one thing I'm thinking about this year is, in this second year, how do we show up this year in a slightly different way. Last year being so aware of not wanting to take up too much space. And, because the school is geographically, you know, far from our house and our kids are busing, not having a lot of touch points with people there. So figuring out, how do we, um, mindfully continue to show up, but also try to do more. I think last year it felt a little isolating and like, disconnected from other folks in the school community and knowing that there are lots of problems that need urgency and collective response together.

I'm also worried about teacher burnout and teacher quitting. This school especially has had trouble with staffing and especially staffing for special education. And as a teacher myself, I always feel very hyper aware of the potential burnout in the background all the time. And so I'm hoping that the families and kids and adults affected by the staffing challenges will be able to make it through. And more than that, I wish that they would be sustained and supported for the incredible work that they do.

Andrew: Thank you Meredith.

Dr. Val: Thank you Meredith for uh, elevating you know a group that's super close to our hearts… the educators who are out here working and it feels strange to feel like this is the most normal since the pandemic, and still knowing that we are recovering from the exhaustion of the past several years, right. We haven't recovered from that yet, you know. And so….

Andrew: Yep.

Dr. Val: …uh I think that's very real and it feels real in global majority schools where there's always an issue with staffing. Like how do we staff these particular places? Um, and how do we do it when folks are exhausted? Yeah. It's tough work, it's tough work.

Andrew: Yeah. All the teachers that I've come across in the first couple of weeks of school at both of my kids' school have just been asking you know how's the year starting out how things feel? And there does seem to be a consistent sense of this feels like a normal school year like in the logistics of it in a way that is different from the past. And there's something reassuring about that. And they're all dealing with you know their own kind of trauma from the pandemic, their own secondary trauma from you know being with kids who have experienced so much throughout the pandemic, and then the kids who are showing up with not a ton of classroom experience. I talked to a teacher last night who said, “I expected them to come needing academic attention.” And she was sort of surprised by the social and emotional needs.

Dr. Val: Oh absolutely.

Andrew: Just like, building a classroom environment that kids have not had very much practice with over the past three years.

Dr. Val: Yeah… No, my kids in particular, they were not worried at all about the academics. They were worried about whether they would be able to make friends, whether they would remember how to talk to people and engage and that was something that was not even on their radar prior to the pandemic and that break.

Andrew: Yeah.

Dr. Val: I've really enjoyed these. I think we should incorporate more voices. So again give us a call… leave us a voice memo. We'd love to hear from you.

Andrew: Yeah. It's great. Thank you. Thank you all for sharing… for sharing so openly and honestly, and bringing us inside your worlds a little bit. It's really nice to hear what's going on out there. Um, Val, we're here. We're back.

Dr. Val: We are back.

Andrew: Season nine kicking off. We've got lots of great conversations planned. We've already recorded a couple of great conversations.

Dr. Val: So many…

Andrew: They're gonna be coming out soon. If you've got ideas that you want to hear, definitely shoot us an email…. podcast@integratedschools.org. One thing we're thinking about for this season as we have done a lot of thinking and contemplating and studying and learning, is also talking about action. You know the world doesn't change just by thinking in a different way. I think the world can't change unless we think in a different way, but just thinking in a different way alone doesn't actually change the world. And so as we're thinking about actions Val, what do you want to encourage folks as we're here in this time of transition, starting out the new school year… What actions should people be thinking about doing as they come away from this episode?

Dr. Val: Yeah I think one action that just came up for me is having those explicit conversations still with our young people around what are their classes like? Who are their friend groups like? How can we help facilitate? Again and going back to what you just said about the social emotional, connecting with people. So not only have I not done it because of the pandemic, I'm also now expected to do around issues of race which you know I haven't done either. Right? And so how do we as adults who um, are trying in this work continue to model that for them?

I also want to uh, encourage the folks who are, especially the ones who called in who are taking this action and feeling alone to connect with others through the Integrated Schools community, you know, whichever way they can in their local community. There are folks who are out there who are with you who probably feel alone as well. Um and so if you can connect with them you will know that you are not alone.

Andrew: Yeah absolutely. Yeah. My action steps for sure for this episode, I'm gonna have a conversation with my oldest daughter about her friend group and just see where that goes. I'm not planning to give her a talking to, (chuckles) um but to, yeah to have a conversation about it. Both to kind of sort of see how she's feeling about it, and to just make sure that we are constantly reasserting that idea that these are conversations that we have, that this is something that we talk about, that it's good to talk about, that it's you know, not just like okay to talk about but it's good to talk about.

Dr. Val: It's good to talk about.

Andrew: That's definitely one of them. And then I think um, you know just thinking about supporting teachers.

Dr. Val: Mm-hmm

Andrew: Even just from an email saying, “Hey thank you.” Because there is a tendency to feel like wow, this feels like a normal year that means like, I can just go back to normal, you know? And I think acknowledging, and I guess the teachers also feel like this should be a normal year so why is this so hard? Making sure that they feel supported and loved and appreciated.

Dr. Val: Yeah. Just a quick story. We were talking at dinner about one of my son’s…. He had uh the same teachers paired second and third grade, and he's like “They're still my favorite.” So I reached out, I emailed them this week and I was like, “Hey, you know, he's in ninth grade now he's thinking about you. You're still his favorite.” And they were very excited to hear from him. So uh we do appreciate you and we will um continue to support educators as well.

Andrew: Absolutely. We also appreciate all the people who support this podcast. We've got a great crew of supporters over at patreon.com/integratedschools. We would love for you to join us. Throw us a few dollars every month, help us keep making this podcast.

Dr. Val: That'd be great. And please continue to share the podcast with others. If you are a dedicated listener for nine seasons and you know someone who's just getting started, send them the episode one season one, and tell 'em to take the journey with us. Um, thank you for that.

Andrew: Absolutely. Val I'm so glad to get to be in a whole other season with you trying to know better and do better.

Dr. Val: Ah... until next time my friend.