S12E10: Caring for Your Community in a Time of Crisis: On the Ground in Minneapolis

S12E10: Caring for Your Community in a Time of Crisis: On the Ground in Minneapolis

Andrew: Welcome to the Integrated Schools Podcast. I'm Andrew, a White dad from Denver.

Dr. Val: And I'm Val, a Black mom from North Carolina.

Andrew: And this is Caring for Your Community in a Time of Crisis: On the Ground in Minneapolis. We've got a bit of a heavy one today, Val.

Dr. Val: It's, it's more than a bit heavy. What is happening in Minneapolis is real, and scary, and tragic for so many. And yet, there are people there who are rallying together to, to love on their community members.

Andrew: Yeah. I mean, I certainly, you know, had been following the news, knew that things were pretty rough in Minneapolis. And Integrated Schools has a big chapter in Minneapolis. So I reached out to Paula, our chapter leader, mostly just to check in and see how she was doing, and ask if there was any way that the National Integrated Schools Organization could support. And then asked, you know, if there were lessons, things that she was seeing on the ground, things that she had learned that would be useful to share with our wider audience.

And, she had all sorts of inspiring stories about community coming together. And one that really piqued my interest was, a chapter member of theirs (a woman who we're gonna call Carina for this episode) who has been organizing parents for four or five years in Minneapolis.

Dr. Val: Mm-hmm.

Andrew: Her son speaks Spanish and she wanted to support that and got involved with some dual language schools in Minneapolis and a parent organizing group there. And I think was really instrumental in, kind of, shifting the way that organization functioned. It had been functioning as really a, a, kind of a, a “super PTA.” A group of five schools that came together and sort of all the things that point listeners back to our PTA So White episode, all the ways that PTA can so often go wrong despite best intentions.

And so, she really did some amazing work I think in sort of pushing that organization to have more representation on their board from Spanish speaking leaders in the community. Doing a lot of work around language justice and providing translation and interpretation and just really some amazing work.

And the organization built very strong relationships with a number of people in the community and was really uniquely situated when ICE showed up in Minneapolis to jump into action and start supporting the community.

Dr. Val: That's right. And, and I, I, I do wanna emphasize the resume that you laid out, they were already within the community, learning the needs, centering the community, and that really made the action that they took in response to what was going on in Minneapolis something that was relevant, timely, and important to the community that they serve.

Andrew: Yeah. Those relationships that she started out building and you know, I think as listeners we'll hear when you get to know Carina a little bit, she's sort of uniquely positioned. She is bilingual. She's spent a lot of time in the Dominican Republic and views her role as being sort of a bridge.

Dr. Val: Yeah.

Andrew: And was really able to create a space where everybody could show up and get to know each other, and deepen their ties to each other. And it was those ties that really supported this organization when, when crisis came.

Dr. Val: Now, Carina does not come alone to our episode. She also brought some amazing people to join her.

Andrew: Yes, so when I spoke to her about coming on the podcast, she was very willing to come and tell her story, but also was very clear that it is not just her story. And that if we really want to get to the heart of the challenges that Minneapolis is facing right now, we really need to be speaking to those most impacted, and certainly I would say Carina, has been impacted.

But, she recommended we also include the voice of a monolingual Spanish speaking member of the organization that she works with, uh, a woman who we're gonna call Cisne for this episode. And, we're not gonna give Carina's real name or Cisne's real name, or the name of the organization throughout this episode, because they're understandably concerned about potential blowback and don't want to be attracting attention in this time. Which I think is a, a valid concern.

So we're gonna try our best to protect their identities.

Dr. Val: That's right. Having both Carina and Cisne in conversation was remarkable. And I think what made it exceptionally meaningful to me is that Cisne was able to speak in her native language with the support of an interpreter and that transformed the conversation.

Andrew: Absolutely.

Dr. Val: It took us right into Cisne’s perspective. Clarity to what she was experiencing. It was necessary for the storytelling in this episode.

Andrew: Yeah. When, when Carina said, you know, “I have this monolingual Spanish speaking guest that I think you should have on the podcast,” I was like, absolutely. And how are we gonna pull this off? And she brought along her friend, uh, who we're gonna just call the interpreter and she's a professional, simultaneous interpreter. And, we recorded on Zoom, which (shout out to Zoom) has a real-time interpreting function so that we had the whole conversation in English, Cisne had the whole conversation in Spanish, basically in real time, we weren't sitting around waiting for translation. It felt like a very natural conversation that we were all able to participate in. And I'm so grateful to Carina for recommending the interpreter and to the interpreter for joining us and, and sharing her gifts with us to facilitate this conversation.

Dr. Val: I wanna say thank you again because you can read about what's happening, you can watch, you know, social media or the news, but to hear from someone who is restricted to her home at this point for her safety and the safety of her child changes everything.

Andrew: Yeah, and a sort of extra special treat. The interpreter stuck around when the conversation was over and, you know, in, in her role as interpreter, her job is to faithfully represent the conversation that's happening, and not really bring her voice to the conversation. But, it didn't take much digging to see quickly that there was a whole lot more going on for her, that she really views her job in interpreting as her part of social justice. And once we got her talking about that, she had so many fascinating things to say. So, stick around at the end of the episode, we’ll play a little snippet of that conversation with her about sort of how she views this role and the importance of language justice. And the importance of people actually, you know, being able to have their voices heard and know that their voices are being heard in real time. That it's not a summary, but that it is a professional interpretation of the words they're saying in real time that allow them to be part of a conversation.

Dr. Val: Yeah.

Andrew: So, listeners, prepare yourselves. It is a, it is a heavy conversation, but not one without hope. And certainly some very inspiring stories of organizing and the power of relationships to keep us safe or as safe as we can be kept in these trying times, so.

Dr. Val: Yeah. Thank you. I'm so excited.

Andrew: All right. Shall we take a listen?

Dr. Val: We should, we should.

[THEME MUSIC]

Cisne: Good evening. I'm Cisne. I am a mother with a student in public schools, in the dual language program. My child is in sixth grade, so I know the bilingual pathway since he was in kinder. It was a dream as a child to be able to be bilingual, but the circumstances were not the same as they are for my son.

And when they told me that there was a possibility that part of his learning could be a dual language program, I didn't hesitate. Now in sixth grade, I can see that it's been worth sticking on this path, and I feel very happy for him because he feels comfortable speaking both languages. It's a big advance that he has received.

And as a mother, it makes me feel very proud.

Andrew: Hmm. That's beautiful.

Dr. Val: That is beautiful!

Carina: Um, my name is Carina. I am a White mom from Minneapolis and my family was born and made in the Dominican Republic. I went to Minneapolis Public Schools from kindergarten through 12th grade. And I didn't have the

Um, but I did learn Spanish as a child. Um, so I was kind of a cultural chameleon and I learned Spanish in unconventional ways. You know, I became a mother in the Dominican Republic. My son was born there, and when the pandemic hit our path, took us back to the US and it was the first time for my son and my husband to try out the US experiment. We're just gonna try it out for a couple years and see how it treated us as a family.

It's been very difficult, especially trying to get a spot in the dual language program. I learned about, you know, gatekeeping and. Who is this program for? Who's really centered here?

Um, we eventually got into one of those three elementary schools, but that was my entry into dual language advocacy as my own privileged newcomer experience was. It was very difficult to find a spot, even with, like, “poster child,” right?

Dr. Val: Right!

Carina: Like, he was born in the DR, his dad’s Afro-Latino, his mom is a White English speaker, dual language teacher. I, I, my whole career was teaching in a dual language setting.

Dr. Val: Oh, wow.

Carina: In New York.

Dr. Val: Yeah, yeah.

Carina: And so, we were very well positioned to advocate, but still had a really hard time getting into this program. In fact, I got connected to the organization that, uh, Cisne and I are connected through because dual language is the most important thing to my family.

Andrew: Tell us a bit about, about the organization. So it's large, broadly speaking, sort of a, a parent-based organizing nonprofit that serves those three elementary schools and the middle school and the high school, all for the dual language families. Tell, tell us a bit more about the organization.

Carina: Yeah, it was formed before I walked into it, but it was formed out of this redistricting that happened in our city, and there was one school that was being split up. And so a lot of the founding parents came from that school, very angry.

Andrew: Mm-hmm.

Carina: That their school community was being broken up and they were being scattered across the city.

And so, when I came into the organization, it was a lot of White parents. There was a Dominican president. So, I made a connection there and started going to meetings and realized that all the meetings were in English, there was very little, like, new immigrant representation and they were really focused on fundraising.

And so, let's pool our resources together. And at that point, the resources were about $50,000 that were left over in the PTA bank account from that school that got broken up. That's how much money they had left over!

Dr. Val: They had $50,000 leftover in the PTA?!

Carina: And so they're like, “Well, let's use this money to start a nonprofit!” And um,

Dr. Val: What?!

Carina: And that's how the organization was born! [Carina chuckles]

Dr. Val: We're just trying to get the cookies at the event! [Laughter]

Carina: Right, right.

Dr. Val: Let alone start a nonprofit with the leftover resource.

Andrew: Yeah.

Dr. Val: That's amazing.

Carina: Yeah. When I came from the Dominican Republic, I had no idea of this, like, monster that is like PTAs and PTOs. Like, I had never parented in the US and I, I went to my first PTA meeting, and I was just like, “Woah! Okay.”

I had no idea what I was walking into.

Andrew: So it sounds like it was, it was very much a traditional PTA in all the ways that the structures that we think about when we think about PTA shows up.

And, sort of, you got more and more involved and you brought your unique perspective. I, I think it's, like, fascinating thinking about not just arriving in the US but parenting for the first time in the US culture. That, that's fascinating to me. But you sort of brought your own perspective. How did you hope to shift that organizational culture when you got involved?

Carina: For me, it started with relationships. Even though I'm from Minneapolis, I had been away for 20 years and I came back, and the first person I met at that PTA meeting was, uh, the president at the time who was actually Latina. And she's still a big part of our organization today, and she is my best comadre at the school still. We both have kids in fifth grade. And during the meeting when they were, like, passing out sheets of budget.

And she was in the front, like she was “leading,” but, like, [Carina chuckles] it was clear that she did not have the power.

Dr. Val: Right.

Carina: Like, she had not made the agenda. She was not familiar with the budget. She was like a very great meeting opener, had a strong voice, but you could tell she had been kind of disempowered by the system and access to information and all that stuff.

So, we met at that meeting and soon there was an email that came out that was like, “Who wants to host teacher appreciation lunch?” And I was like, “Oh, I appreciate teachers! I was a teacher.” I signed up and this mom was the person who brought this huge pot of tamales. And um, and then, like, all the White parents, like, signed up on the SignUpGenius with, like, their food [Carina giggles] and this parent came to me and she's like, “Oh my goodness, Carina, you have done something I've never been able to do as president, which is like, have the Latinos come and sign up via WhatsApp with their food and have the White parents also sign up with their food and make this amazing lunch. It's been so hard for me to bridge that gap.”

And so, she handed me her tamales and she's like, “You be president!” And I was like, “Oh no, not so fast! We gotta–”

Dr. Val: Oh my gosh!

Carina: I was like, clearly you've been disempowered. I'm not just gonna be president. I don't know what I'm doing either. But let's talk about how you navigated the system.

Dr. Val: Mmm!

Carina: Um, and so that was my in, like, through a relationship with her.

Dr. Val: Yeah. I'm curious about your position as that bridge. Is that something that you embraced? Was it, like, challenging? Like, how did you navigate being the bridge between the two communities?

Carina: I very much embraced that.

I think that's one of my, like, core identity markers is being a bridge because I was able to kind of live a periphery newcomer experience through my husband's experience, and through my son's, spending the majority of his life in the Dominican Republic. But I'm also, you know, live in my body and, and it's not my experience, but I, I'm bilingual, and I'm able to bridge cultures. And I'm deeply relational. And so, and I've, I've also been a teacher and so also as a parent.

Dr. Val: Mmm! Mm-hmm.

Carina: I can understand the teacher's perspective. I've also been a school administrator, so I can understand the school administrator's perspective. So I'm constantly bridging, not just language, but experience and, and kind of worldview and understanding that. Just like my experience is not everyone's experience, and there's so many things that we take for granted that everyone experiences in the same way. That's just not true.

Dr. Val: Yeah. Thank you for that.

Andrew: Yeah. You were like, you uniquely positioned to nudge this organization to a more inclusive, a more decentering of traditional voices that had been centered there. You, you brought in a unique skillset and it sounds like the organization needed it in that moment.

Carina:Yeah, I think so.

Andrew: Cisne, tell us about your introduction to the organization and kind of what, what drew you to it and what you found when you got there.

Cisne: Well, I met the organization through text messages. I would get a lot of information, and they would say, this is the organization that helps the families, that helps the five schools. But I didn't know what it did. Personally, I was very involved in one of the schools that I supported and my internal work was as a volunteer. And so, they made a meeting for Latino parents, and Carina said, “Can you go to that?” And I said, I don't have a lot of interest in going because it's hard for me with transportation.

She said, “I'll pick you up.” I said, “Okay!” When Carina told me, do you wanna be part of this organization? And I said, “What's it about? What do you do? I'd like to know a little more.” And that's when she told me you could join the meeting. And me, I thought that meeting was exclusive for certain people or for White parents.

I saw the links, but I never thought it was for me until I got this invitation and I listened. And they said a lot of nice things, like they gave resources, economic resources, they did events. They had resources for teachers, and it, it piqued my interest. That's how I moved in the school. So I said, well, it could be a bigger way to be able to have potential to use my skills in another place, and that's when Carina said, “There's a position! You could be the next one!” And I said, “Next ‘what?’ What do they do? What do those volunteers do?” I am always very structured. I like order, and I said, “Share what does this leader do. What are their responsibilities?” Because it's not just to put my name, but I have to know what is my responsibility.

And Carina told me what it meant and I read it and I said, “Okay, it makes sense.” And it goes with my, what I value and what I wanna do. I will give myself the opportunity and I said, “Okay, next year I will take that role.” And that's how it started. The connection became a lot stronger with the administration and the school that I represented, and they began to see me as a way, well, you could say that they could trust me, that things were structured.

There was a little bit of reserve against the organization 'cause they thought they were coming to impose things, but my way to come to them was the way to come through collaboration. That's how we maintain, is to stay connected and to maintain communication.

I am very responsible in what I participate in. So Carina was always pushing me saying, “No, you can do it! You can do it. You're a communicator. You could take on this role even if you're not too present.” So she would motivate me. We were trying to, uh, develop Spanish leaders and that's where I started to open up a meeting to welcome these people so they could talk about what they do.

And in that process, they promoted me to be the vice president of this organization. And it's something I wasn't looking for. I just wanted to have a break from me. But uh, along the way they kept pulling me and they, uh, nominated me and I said, “Okay, sounds good.” If this is happening now, it's for a reason so I can do it.

So it happened during this time of crisis. As a family, I have to stay at home. I am in the same situation as a lot of vulnerable families. So this time I've seen it as something positive, not just the negative that is going on outside.

Andrew: Hmm, that's beautiful.

Dr. Val: Carina, I am sitting here just in awe of your ability and desire to share that power. To, like, recognize that it's there and to share it with others.

And Cisne, I'm so thankful that, you know, like, having a friend like Carina can be dangerous, right? [Val and Andrew chuckle] You're like, “No, I need to rest!” She's like, “Eh. Rest later.” Um, so that can be dangerous. So I'm excited that, that you stepped in, into that role as well. Carina, can you talk a little bit about, like, where, and how you learned how to share that power?

'Cause I think that is important for many of our other caregivers to hear, because they're walking into similar spaces, and we're trying not to step on toes. We want to build with the, with the communities that are already there. So can you talk a little bit about how you develop that?

Carina: Yeah. I mean here, of course the, the people who I could see are leaders who've just been kept out of power because of ways that parents interact with schools.

And so, when I came back into Minneapolis after being away for 20 years, right on the coattails of George Floyd's murder–

Dr. Val: Mmm. Mm-hmm.

Carina: –um, is when I came back, I knew that I had to relearn my city and relearn, like, how to operate in the US as not a person who knows, but a person who's curious. And almost like a visitor in my hometown.

Dr. Val: Yeah, yeah.

Carina: And so, it was my chance to make kind of a new friends circle, and to be really intentional about who I invest my time and energy in. And like I said, from that first interaction with my comadres/comadre, I, I knew who had the answers about how we could build more power with parents and school collaborating.

And I was just baffled by how we could have, you know, 70% Latino parents, but then you go to any kind of meeting and it's 70% White, right?

And so, I was like, this does not make sense. And this is in a dual language school. And so, I knew that we had to, you know, ask the people who have been marginalized, like, what's keeping you out?

You know, and really follow their lead. Because everyone else is sitting around and be like, “We invited them, they didn't come, we–”

Andrew: Right.

Carina: “We translated the flyer. They still didn't come.”

Dr. Val: Mm-hmm.

Carina: “We got an interpreter. They still didn't come!” [Carina chuckles]

Dr. Val: Mm-hmm. Yeah!

Carina: It's none of those, it's, those are some basic, very easy things to fix, but the harder things to fix are how you wield power once you get into those spaces. And it's really obvious. I mean, it's obvious in which language is spoken first.

Dr. Val: Mm, mm-hmm.

Carina: So many meetings that, you know, the facilitator will speak English, and then there'll be Spanish interpretation, and then they'll say something like, “Any questions?” And by the time it's interpreted into Spanish, there is no time for questions. You're like, the English speaker is just moving on. And they're like, “Well, they didn't say anything. I wonder why they didn't say anything. Everything's fine. They had no questions, no problems. Carry on.” A lot of it is being, you know, some things you can see because you're bilingual and you're like, whoa, if I were operating in Spanish here, that would not be enough time. But even beyond that, it's just being aware of what feels like a turnoff.

You know, things that parents do, like selling chocolate [Carina chuckles], doing fun runs where everyone goes out, you know, this is classic Integrated School stuff, but there was a lot of people who just saw them as like, easy ways to make money, and at the school level, when I started partnering with Latino leaders, right, we were able to say, we don't have to do these things!

There's plenty of things that we can do instead. Like, you don't have to do a fun run. You don't have to sell things. There's many ways to engage and, you know, we use community-centric fundraising principles, and there's many ways to give. In any situation you have to offer multiple ways because every parent cares to engage in their student's education.

But many times we have assumed that some parents don't want to or aren't able to, and that's completely wrong.

Dr. Val: Right.

Carina: And so, we just had to undo a lot of the things that we had been spending a lot of energy doing in the past to be able to listen to a whole nother way of engagement and center that.

Dr. Val: I was a, a high school teacher at one point, and um, I took over the yearbook and I remember shortly after taking over the yearbook that first year, uh, somebody came up to me and was like, “Val, we have never had this many Black people in the yearbook before.”

And I was like, I mean, but they're at the school! Like, so of course we're gonna have Black people in the yearbook.

Have you experienced some sort of, any sort of like, “White flight” now that you are elevating leaders of color in the organization?

Carina: Um, interestingly enough, I mean, yes, our, our board is majority Latino, majority, uh, Spanish dominant, majority immigrant right now.

And just like I approach Cisne, I approach people who I see can fill certain needs, and some people who I approach who are not Latino will say, “Oh, but I'm not bilingual.” Or, oh, “I don't,” you know,

Dr. Val: Hmm.

Carina: They use bilingual as a way to say, “No, that space is not for me.” But an interesting thing that's happening right now is that we're holding this, like, Tuesday night, uh, community care circle, this healing space that has a facilitator in English and a facilitator in Spanish, because everyone's experiencing trauma right now.

Yeah. And we've only had, we've done this for three weeks. We've only had one person come who prefers English. It's really interesting that we've made such a point, especially in these times, to, like, center the needs of our Latino families, that the English speakers are not coming to the healing space.

Dr. Val: Hmm.

Carina: Which is not good either.

Dr. Val: No, no. We need to heal together. That's the whole point of all of this. Right?

Andrew: Tell us a, a little bit about the work that you, prior to the, the current crisis that Minneapolis is in, what did the work of the organization look like kind of day to day? What sorts of things were you doing?

How are you providing support as you shifted away from this primarily typical PTA “raise as much money as possible in ways that maybe are alienating to at least half of your community” kind of version and you, you know, you shifted to this more community-centric a Latino led organization. What were, what were the activities that you were largely engaged in before this current crisis?

Carina: Yeah, well, we've, we had a lot of, uh, different kinds of parties with different themes.

Andrew: Nice!

Carina: And so, and so probably the, the most consistent thing in our organizational history is a soccer tournament. That's more than a soccer tournament, but it's a chance at the end of the year for all the schools to come together.

Students play students, teachers play teachers. Parents play with teachers against students. Um, and so it's a five school soccer tournament in the spring, and now it has, you know, our, our parents who cook and sell food are the vendors. We have cultural performances, um, dance groups, and musical acts and it's more like a, a one day celebration.

So that's one. And we saw a lot of great, um, leadership emerge. That was great. And then, um, we also have a Día de los Muertos celebration, which the cool thing about that is that it's always been Latina run. And so, you can really see the difference in, like, how the planning meetings happen, how the budget is used, how resources are stretched.

We had resource fairs. We had. probably, my proudest innovation has been the “Buddy Family” program where even before this crisis tried to buddy up families one-to-one with a newcomer family and a family that's knows, knows how to get around, um, here to provide partnership and kind of solidarity mutual support.

My son's best friend came out of our buddy-ship [Carina laughs] and that's what's really transformed my understanding of what's needed and especially in this crisis. But, Cisne, what are some of your favorite things that we did before the crisis?

Cisne: During the time that I was a representative, we had a grant that permitted us to create and maintain the gardens.That was a really beautiful space where the parent volunteers would maintain them during the summer. For me, it was a beautiful experience because I felt included.

Dr. Val: Mm-hmm.

Cisne: And I also included other parents, 'cause a lot of the resources are mostly for the students and there's few spaces for parents to participate.

Another thing that the organization did last year was an academy that it was also to create community with the families. Where there were different facilitators for writing affinity groups for different areas. That was really nice because we got to meet a lot of people from other schools because when there's festivities, but all the families are very dispersed. They're eating, playing. So there wasn't a space where we could really socialize the families. So these spaces where the academy was held, created that space so we could connect, so we could create community, so we could get to know other people. And also the parking lot to raise funds.

We did two parking lot fundraisers, one of art and one of, of pride week. So we have two parking lots where we become volunteers from different schools and it's another way to connect with other families to meet them, to be doing something together for one hour or two hours. And that was really nice in all these spaces. Be able to connect with them.

Dr. Val: When you mentioned a sense of belonging, I am curious about how you felt prior to Carina reaching out so many times. Like, did you feel like you belonged?

Did your, your child feel like they belonged? Like, what was that relationship with the school before Carina reached out?

Cisne: In the school, yes. I have to say, be honest from the principal, the teachers, I was very well known. Everyone knew me, and they knew what I did and what they could ask me for, et cetera.

Cisne: But the parent group that existed, no. Because the decisions were always by vote, uh, from White people. And the decisions were from their perspective and what they wanted and what for them was good. And in this group, I was the Latino mom. I didn't feel comfortable in that group because there was an, an interpreter.

The interpretation was done from another person that maybe spoke a little Spanish, but they had very brief summaries or I didn't understand. So I would leave the meeting and I didn't understand a lot of things and I couldn't process it. So I told Carina I would like to be, but I need an interpreter.

I can't continue a process without getting the correct information. I can't be in an organization if you just give me summaries, and a lot of times they make decisions from those summaries, and I don't understand what's going on.

Dr. Val: Yeah.

Andrew: The theme that keeps coming up here is relationships. Is connecting with people emotionally, connecting with people, caring about how people feel.

Focusing on relationships and focusing on building those spaces where people feel like they can belong. That feels like such a powerful lesson for people to take away. Thinking about trying to create spaces where, uh, we really want, you know, representation and want people to show up as their full, authentic selves.

I wanna talk a little bit about the kind of current crisis we're in now, and you know, maybe we're sort of coming towards the end of the acute crisis in Minneapolis. But I'm sure that there are so many things that are just now beginning to rear their heads as as we come out of the acute portion. And there's so much rebuilding and repair to be made there.

But, day to day at the peak of the crisis,what, what were the major challenges? I know like we've talked about people feeling like they were on lockdown, people not able to leave their houses. Give us a little bit of a sense of what it felt like or of what the day-to-day actually looked like for people who weren't there, maybe don't have any idea, kind of, just how bad things got.

Carina: You know, a, a year ago at conferences we had a DOPA drive. DOPA means designation of parental authority. And so, we helped families a year ago, um, set up plans, like emergency plans for their children, for their belongings, the power of attorney and travel consent.

We did those a year ago. Turns out they all expire a year later! But I'm a year in to already being committed to about 12 families. I'm the guardian of, uh, about 12 families’ kids. Not because not, this is not something I like looked for, or that I think is like a good idea for anyone. But this is like a symptom of our society right now, is that this many families have come here and engaged in community.

And when it came time to find somebody less vulnerable than themselves to put as their guardian, they didn't know anybody else besides me. And so, I said, yes, you know? And then, so now we're renewing those, of course, we're doing grocery shopping for those families, and on Tuesday I'm taking 18 kids to the dentist.

Dr. Val: Oh, right! Those things that you don't even think about, right? Mm-hmm. Like, thank you.

Carina: Our first rent payments went out in December, whereas right now is when a lot of people are catching up and realizing people are three months behind on rent. So it's almost gotten to a point where it feels normal to be just always carrying around things in my car and dropping them off.

Um, but I've tried to get out of the weeds a little bit and think about like, okay, if my 12 families need to do this DOPA renewal at home, we need a system for people to sign up and for lawyers and notaries to go to people's houses in a safe way. And, like, now it's scaled to schools even outside of our organization.

Andrew: Cisne, what has been the day to day like for you, for your family, for the people in your community since, since ICE arrived?

Cisne: I tried to continue working because I'm a babysitter. I work with taking care of children, um, since the baby was born, but the impact was hard. Even though I kept working, I would go with fear on the bus.

If I see incidents of ICE, I would get concerned 'cause I would say “I'm not gonna make it home.” And my concern with my son, he was always worried, “Is mom gonna come home or not?” It got to a point that I had to pick between the emotional part and the economic need. And it was heavier, the emotional need. So, I stayed home after Rene was killed because that impacted the whole community.

Andrew: Yeah,

Cisne: And that's where I felt real fear. And I said, this is not safe anymore for anyone. It was very hard. To let go of this family because I had a strong connection with them. Also, after the pandemic, my family also, it was hard for us to find work, to have stable work. I was, like, two years trying to find a stable job. And this family gave me the opportunity and I was like going back to the past again.

It was very hard. But I felt hope because I knew I was a little more secure with my son at home. And that's when the emotional part starts to be more profound because you feel like you're a prison, you don't have your freedom. And we have to live this. I have not gone out for anything.

I've stopped my medical treatment. There's been a lot of incidences in my family. They've been scared to get medical attention because if something happened. But the positive thing is I've been able to connect with 90 families to be able to support them in different ways of help. It's been a space that has kept me busy and that I don't fall into depression, because I think if I haven't been in this process to communicate with others, it would've been easier to fall into a depression. So it's been really hard, really complex. This that's been happening to us is happening, it's been affecting us mentally, emotionally, financially, even with the families. It, it creates conflict sometimes with families. So the situation that I live today, many families are living.

I've talked with 90 families, and there are things that I can see, it's what we're living. So it's nothing simple what we're living, having to stay at home. And I really feel like we're prisoners in our own home and to live that is very difficult. But we have the hope. It's gonna take years to be able to trust again, to be able to go out again and feel that we can do it.

But I know the community's been with us. I've received letters from other states, from kids that are writing to us. That are people that are concerned about us, that ask us, what do you need? It's been something that's helped us to continue moving along, and being strong, and not fall. But we also have to recognize that there've been families that have felt it much more hard.

They've left the country. They're gone. And that hurts me because we all come with the same dreams, with the same hopes, and this situation has not been pretty and they've had to leave. [Emotional sniffle]

Andrew: Thank you. [Andrew clears his throat]

Dr. Val: I'm so sorry. I am so sorry. What are the conversations you have had or have had to have with the kids?

Cisne: Well, with my son, when I decided to stop working, I talked with him and I said, we're gonna take a decision. Because my son had panic, and he's like, “Mom, I'm gonna go to school and this person is gonna call ICE. She said she was gonna call ICE.” And I said, “We're gonna take a decision and we're gonna stay at home. And we're gonna be okay! I want you to know that we're gonna be okay.”

Something else that helped me was to be able to speak with the truth, not hide things from him and have a plan. With him we made a plan. He has his box with all of his documents that he could use if something were to happen, and it was something to talk about responsibility with my son. The most beautiful thing with him is he took it on as a responsibility as well, and that's helped us.

We have a plan, so if something happens, we've talked about it. If something happens with me, what will happen? What is the plan? And we've written it down to not forget it. And another plan that I have is the delegation that I did to one of my families that my son, if something were to happen, I don't want to repeat the, the same story as my family that we were raised without parents.

And another thing that's helped is find spaces to relax, to draw, to paint, look for a space for both of us, even with all that we are living. And talk. Or also give him his space, 'cause sometimes he doesn't wanna talk. Sometimes he can't sleep. There's been a lot of incidences when I've had to accompany him during this process, and sometimes I think about the amount of kids that are living this. It invades so much more the situation, the pain.

But as a family, my son and I, we've decided to have things clear, to have a plan if something were to happen, and find a space to relax, because this situation has affected us a lot, in particular with our mental health. That's what we've been doing to be able to talk with respect and with responsibility.

Dr. Val: Thank you. And I, I hate….He's in fifth grade, right? [Val holding back tears]

Cisne: Sixth grade.

Andrew: Yeah. Not right. [Andrew exhales]

Carina, what conversations have you had with your family?

Carina: Um, yeah. My son's in fifth grade and he's very aware of everything. He's actually going to school. Because the way I think about it, I need him to go to school so I can keep holding up the community.

And my husband is a therapist, a school, a mental health therapist for immigrants in schools in Spanish, you know? But, my son asks, you know, he knows that we're the guardians of a lot of kids and he is like, “Where are they gonna go? We don't have space in this place.” And I'm like, “You know, it's not gonna become an orphanage here!”

It just, like, every family's plan is that I take the kid to reunite with the family in Ecuador. Best case scenario, we get to go to Ecuador! Um, and then he says, Papi, you know, “Are they gonna take Papi?” And um. I say, you know, one time he was cornered by ICE and he showed his green card and that was enough.

Let's hope! Right? But I can't make any promises. And then he says, when are we leaving? When are we going back to the Dominican Republic? And “Can't we go now?” And I, yeah, would love to go. That's our, that's our goal. That's our plan to go back together. But since my husband's in the middle of his naturalization process.

Like right now, the federal government is deciding whether he deserves to be a citizen or not. Um, and that will just make, like, our lives crossing, crossing borders more easy. That's meant that I can't put my name out there. I can't put anything on social media. I can't, you know, I can't use my real name with you all.

I can't, we can't use the organization's name, because we, we are all vulnerable for being targeted. Um, and especially at this point in my husband's immigration journey. Yeah, my son's very aware of where we are in it, and he's also very aware of how he has got a slightly different status just by being in school from most of his friends. More than half of his classmates are not there.

Andrew: Yeah. For both of you, what was the moment as this current crisis started that you knew that things were bad?

Cisne: Well, I in particular, uh, lived a, uh, an episode when someone at the school threatened my son to call these people. That's when I said this is getting out of control. This situation is showing the real face of people that don't accept us as part of the community.

That was my first alarm. The second time, it's when the kids didn't wanna go to class and they were asking for help with transportation, and we heard from the staff, there's more people not coming to school. And it's something that I said in a meeting, “This is happening, this is going on. We should try to go and learn virtually.”

The crisis where the organization started to get more involved is when they said, “Oh, rent is due. We're close to having to owe money. The families are staying home. What are we gonna do?” And from that came many questions for many schools, many leaders in the schools. And they’re just like, what can we do?

How can we generate funds to help with that need? And I said, well, I can do it. I said, I can do it, and I did it. We had a meeting with the team and that's how it started. That's how mutual aid started taking on that role to govern, but also to delegate. I've also received a lot of appreciations. They say I am a good leader.

That I'm bringing clear process, and that makes me feel good, because with that vision I came in and with that vision, I'm also trying to create a balance of what we need and what we can do.

Andrew: Mm.

Dr. Val: You know, we had a very small time with ICE too here in Charlotte, and our community has not been the same since.

It still feels like a ghost town, but my dad definitely called and he was like, “Those Minneapolis folks, man, they are just, we are so proud of y'all.” So hang in there. Thank you for taking care of each other. Thank you for showing the rest of us how to, how to love our neighbors well.

Andrew: Uh, Carina, when did you know that things were bad?

Carina: Well, I was actually in California for work when Renee Goode was killed. But personally it hit home when I was, um, coming back from California that week. My dad called me because he was at our house with my son, and he was meeting up with my husband who is getting my son's best friend. You know, they're, they're meeting up to have a play date to the, you know.

At that point, my son's friend's family was very much in lockdown, but getting stir-crazy. Uh, he's a newcomer. He, you know, he was our buddy family and he was getting him from his house and coming to our house. And, um, my husband actually encountered a checkpoint on the road where there's ICE agents with guns checking every car. And my husband's a green card holder, and so he was like, “Hmm, I don't wanna be in that line!” And so he left the checkpoint line and took another route home. And my dad called me because he said before my husband arrived home, three to five unmarked cars were at our house. So they didn't even follow him.

They beat him back here. And so, my dad was like, let's not do the kid exchange here. And so they met up in a school parking lot, exchanged the kids, waited it out. The agents left. But that's when I realized that, like, none of us is safe. You know, they completely scanned the license plates of my husband's car and said, “Oh, we know where you live. We're gonna meet you there.”

And uh, that's when it really got close to home, literally for me.

Andrew: Yeah, that's scary. You all had so much infrastructure in place already, so many relationships built already, but are there things that you wish you had known, or wish you had done before ICE arrived that would've left you even better prepared?

I mean, I think you're so much better prepared than so many people out there because of those relationships, but are there things you wish you had known ahead of time?

Carina: Big gap, I think is our preparedness and our foresight, and the school district’s: a month and a half into online learning (right?), and at my kids' school, we still have 35 families that don't have hotspots! We should not be fundraising for hotspots.

Andrew: Right.

Carina: But that's, that's where we are. So that's the one part of being prepared, right? Is like, that would've been nice to, to just like go into hybrid learning and be able to access class.

Andrew: Mm-hmm. Cisne, are there things you wish you had known or been better prepared for?

Cisne: Well, I think families in particular who are affected, it would've been nice to have information about legal options, what are our rights?

Andrew: Hmm.

Cisne: As immigrants, because many times they just say, “Have these documents,” but we don't know behind this there's also rights that we have. And that's been one of the things of most incidents when ICE is gone for someone, they don't know their rights.

They don't know how to defend their rights and say “You can't do what you're doing.” So I think it's something that we learned a lot. And also as vulnerable families, I think it's important to have these basic things so that we can support ourselves, because the stigma is you don't have rights. That's what they make us believe.

But now we know that's not true. That there are rights that we have, and not just because you are documented or not documented, but it's because you're a human being, and that's where it comes from. That's been really important, the education for us, that education has helped many families. They knock on the door and you know what you can say, or you can have the little red cards.

It's a way to identify and say, I know my rights, and well, I think that was a surprise for ICE, that they were supporting us with all that information. I think that's where it came, “They know! They're informed! The people are giving them these little red cards.” So I think that also made them mad to see that the community was united in supporting us and educating us.

And what I say now is, as community, we need to learn from this situation, this negative situation we're living. And in particular, it's to save. Save for difficult times. Also, for situations that could come from one minute to the other. And in many meetings, I had heard talking about making emergency funds.

Don't wait for a situation to have emergency funds, 'cause there're always be something that could come up quickly. Or the district. They already had a plan when the pandemic happened. They just took it away because the pandemic's over. But they didn't have a plan B if something similar were to happen, what would be the situation?

I think all the families that have students should have access to a basic plan of internet. So this is a learning piece for everyone as families, to look for resources, and also as a district to be a little more aware of things other than the learning. I know it's hard to, to run both situations, but teach the parents that these are resources, and this would help them during these times of emergency with what we're living and what is challenging to access.

For me, that's been the most fundamental parts and when I talk with the families is learn to use our resources. 'cause many times we don't think that there will be a future where something like this might happen, so it's a time of learning for all of us.

Carina: There's a lot of people working really hard and not in a relationship. And, and that's the biggest learning about why the organization is successful, is because we have Latino leadership and we know how to follow and we know how to be truly responsive. We know how important it is who's making the calls.

Dr. Val: Mm-hmm.

Carina: And you know that we have these, like, extensive WhatsApp networks when everyone else is on Signal and, like, none of those signal groups are bilingual.

Andrew: Right.

Carina: Even early on when people were doing like these big hundreds and thousands of people training around how to use the whistles, none of that was Spanish either.

And so early on, people would be whistling, whistling their heart out and no, like, the people who should have taken whistling as a cue were like, “Why are you whistling?”

Andrew: Right.

Carina: And it's like, how are you gonna organize in solidarity if the people that you're trying to protect don't even know the signals for protection?

Dr. Val: Preach.

Carina: Right?

Andrew: Yeah. The, hopefully the acute crisis in Minneapolis is coming to an end, and I'm sure that that is not the end of the crisis that this has caused. You mentioned it's gonna take a really long time to,

Dr. Val: Mm-hmm.

Andrew: Um, the emotional harm that's been done. The, just the financial burden that people are going to slowly have to dig out from months and months behind on rent.

People now looking for work again or whatnot. For people who have not had this come to their city yet (and I do say ‘yet,’ because I think it's probably coming to, for most of us), but, you know, what, what do you think Minneapolis needs now to start to heal?

Cisne: Well, in the schools, give them emotional support. To the kids, be a little more flexible. The kids that were on virtual learning are gonna have more challenges when they come back to their in-person classes.

Andrew: Carina, what does Minneapolis need now?

Carina: Yeah, well I think I've, the turning point for me was when I realized what mutual aid means. And I am so lucky to be in close relationship with so many of the families that are trapped in their homes. And when I've been out rushing around doing stuff, they've been feeding me! Like they've been making me the meal prep that I've never made for myself in my whole life.

Andrew: Right.

Carina: I have not cooked in months.

Dr. Val: Aw!

Carina: Because each week a different organizational leader who is home-bound is making food for my whole family. And I just wish, I just wish that for other helpers and for people who are isolated, to have someone that they can engage in mutual aid and mutual, like, collective care with.

I spent, you know, the first month just, like, spiraling dark spiral down, and I got to a real bad place because the relationships allowed me to see so, so many bad experiences. And then I started allowing it to come back to me, and everyone deserves to have that come back, and to be able to give, and not just be seen as a victim or vulnerable.

Dr. Val: Amen.

Carina: That's what I would say is another, lik,e advice I have for other cities is, like, the partnership between school and neighborhood is so important.

Dr. Val: Mm.

Andrew: Yeah.

Carina: And we were so lucky to have, we got this grant from the city of Minneapolis called the Partnership Engagement Fund. So for three years we've been really like systemically partnering between school and community, and now all those people are our patrols.

Dr. Val: Nice.

Carina: All those people are, like, sending our kids at home Valentines! Like, there's a–

Dr. Val: Ohh!

Carina: And so that was huge, is that we didn't have to start building trust and relationships with our neighbors in crisis that were already there.

Andrew: This is beautiful. I just can't say thank you enough, um, for sharing for all the work that you're doing in Minneapolis right now. Um, holding up the community, and I know that there are lots of people out there doing this sort of work.

Andrew: Um, I think it is, it's inspiring, it's terrifying. It's, I feel just heartbroken that it is happening, and also so grateful that there are people who can step up and, uh, lean into mutual aid and, and do the work that you are all doing. So thank you for coming and sharing it.

Carina: Thank you.

Cisne: Thank you.

Dr. Val: No, thank you!​

Andrew: Thank you Cisne.

Interpreter: Muchas gracias.

[THEME MUSIC]

So Val, what'd you think?

Dr. Val: I think we need to give listeners time to process everything that they heard. I think the words of our guests are heavy and real and I don't know that we can do it much justice, my friend.

Andrew: Yes. I think the, the voices of Carina and Cisne and our interpreter are probably plenty to leave folks with. So, again, deep gratitude to all three of them for joining us to the incredible gift that the interpreter provided.

We were fortunate at the end of the interview that the interpreter was willing to stick around and we had a little conversation with her about why she does the work she does, and how she views it as her part in social justice. And so we'll take a little listen to some of what she has to say about that.

Interpreter: Thank you for appreciating language access and for being an example of what that looks like, and what that can sound like, and how you can really support people, uh, to build bridges and build community.

Carina: And speak for themselves.

Interpreter: And speak for themselves.

Andrew: Yeah.

Interpreter: And feel empowered to speak for themselves and know that their words are being heard and it's not a summary.

Dr. Val: Right.

Andrew: Yeah. We have not tried something like this before and it certainly opens my eyes to what's possible.

Interpreter: Well, thank you for, for being open and being curious and for helping show people the possibilities.

Andrew: Yeah. You know, shout out to Zoom for creating the tools to make it so easy to do.

Like, the technology we have now between, you know, translation, and interpretation, and the tools to actually do that in real time. There's just like, yeah, there's no excuse, not to.

Interpreter: But we also need to invest in our interpreters. And that's another piece–

Dr. Val: I was gonna say, I feel like there’s–

Interpreter: –to this bilingual education, is investing in the students who are benefiting from this dual language learning and culture and peace, uh, because there's a lot of people, interpreters, who've been doing this for a long time that are retiring.

Dr. Val: Yeah.

Interpreter: And we need more people. We need to develop and strengthen and support the next generation of interpreters and students who go through this bilingual program. They have a great head start.

Andrew: The, this gift that you have. I, I, I get the sense that underneath there, you, you, you feel a real calling to this for social justice reasons. That this is not just a, not just a job that you're doing because it's a skillset you have, but that there is real power that you believe in the cause.

Interpreter: Absolutely. As an interpreter, I spend the day and I never use my voice for my own thoughts and words.

Dr. Val: Mm-hmm.

Interpreter: My voice is always, I'm speaking other people's words. Uh, it's not a place that I am used to being in (sharing my thoughts or my opinions), but it's an important thing to talk about because so many people need dependable, accurate interpretation, that's not a summary, that's not explained. That's not AI.

We need to retain that human connection. You know, uh, last year there was a pilot project to see if students would, wanted to shadow me or observe me or take notes.

Dr. Val: Oh, that's amazing!

Interpreter: They're already interpreting for their families and friends, but they need guidance and they need support, and they need to be empowered.

t's a big responsibility to speak for someone else and you have to be respectful with their words, not add to it.

Dr. Val: Yeah.

Interpreter: Not take away from it. Not make it small, not summarize it, and not clean it up. What they say is what they say. Those are their words. They're not my words. I am just the bridge to carry that information so other people can, can join in that conversation.

Andrew: Yeah. I mean, you, Cisne had Val and I in tears through your interpretation work. It's just such a gift. I can't thank you enough for it.

Dr. Val: Yeah.

Andrew: Yeah.

Interpreter: Thank you for allowing the space, and thank you for allowing a little extra time to talk about language access and the importance it can have on both communities. And how powerful this person was, even though she's struggling, look at what she's still doing in her community.

Dr. Val: Absolutely.

Interpreter: She's still supporting her community, so we can learn from that. And our kids can learn from that. How to be the citizens of the future, the interpreters of the future, the, the leaders of the, of the future. Yeah!

Andrew: Thank you again. This has been beautiful.

Interpreter: Thank you! Thanks for the opportunity. I appreciate it.

Dr. Val: After listening to our interpreter friend, it is a reminder that we can take action. And so, if that means asking the question, like, “Can we get interpretation for this meeting?” Or can we center and make sure we have representation on our boards? Like, there are things that we can do.

What I absolutely love about Carina is her ability, willingness, and commitment to sharing power.

Andrew: Yeah.

Dr. Val: That woman is undefeated, you know, of looking around and saying like, you, absolutely it should be wielding some of this power. It is not just about me, it is about us. And I think that is something that we can certainly embody as well.

Andrew: Yeah. And so listeners, as we leave you with this episode to chew on. Um, imagining there will be folks who want to help in some way. And, unfortunately the logistics of that are tricky given that we are trying to protect this organization's identity. But, what we can do is promise that if it seems at some point like it is safer, we'll definitely share their information and encourage you to contribute.

But in the meantime, in your own communities, there are ways to get connected. And fortunately, it seems that potentially at least the acute crisis in Minneapolis is ending, but we know that there are plans to expand these operations to other cities. So, most likely, wherever you're listening from right now is on the list. And this similar crisis will be coming to your town.

So, just a few things you can do in your own communities to start planning for what happens when it shows up for you. And I think you know, a place to start is just making sure that, you have contact information for other families in your community that people know how to find you, that you know how to find other people. Getting in touch with the people in your school that you know are the most connected to the most families.

So is that the social worker, is that the community liaison? Start building those networks now. You know, I think this organization that Carina and Cisne are part of, has a long history of established trust and relationships, which is a great thing to rely on in a crisis. And even if you don't have the years to build that right now, starting to strengthen those ties to your community is a huge first step to prepare yourself for the inevitable arrival of a similar situation.

Dr. Val: Yeah. And as a person who lives in a city where we had a similar situation, I can say that people don't stop needing help once they leave. Right? I think this is an opportunity for us to really double down on opportunities to engage in mutual aid for our communities.

I'm thinking about what Cisne said in terms of, like, saving for emergencies. Like, you can never do enough of that, right? Never have enough of a nest egg because you just, you just don't know. And so, we are grateful that it seems like the worst is over and we know that we need to continue to stay invested, to stay connected, because I think oftentimes people feel, like ,abandoned.

Andrew: Uh. I guess just leave listeners with a thought that Paula, who connected me to Carina in the first place said when she and I were talking, that relationships help keep us safe and not systems. So wherever you can lean into, the existing relationships you have or establishing new relationships, that is never gonna lead you astray.

Dr. Val: That's right. Thank you for being in relationship with me.

Andrew: Thank you, Val. It is, always a gift to be in these conversations, even if they aren't necessarily fun or lighthearted, but certainly enriching and I'm very grateful for it as I try to know better and do better.

Dr. Val: Me too. And until next time.