S12E1 – Season 12 Kick Off: What Now?

S12E1 - Season 12Kick Off: What Now?

Andrew: Welcome to Integrated Schools podcast. I'm Andrew, a White dad from Denver.

Dr. Val: And I'm Val, a Black mom from North Carolina.

Andrew: And this is Season 12 Kick Off: What Now? Val, we are back! Season 12 launching. Here we are.

Dr. Val: We are still here, folks.

Andrew: We are still here.

Dr. Val: Absolutely.

Andrew: The world is a wild place right now.

Dr. Val: Yeah.

Andrew: But, we are here to keep having, uh, nuanced, thoughtful conversations about race and parenting and segregation in our education systems.

Dr. Val: For sure. And, you know, we're committed to those conversations, but we recognize there might not be as much safety in having the conversations.

Andrew: Yeah. It's a scary time for sure. The world is a wild place. But we thought we'd launch the season with a little reflection on where we are personally, where we are as a country, and, um, some thoughts about what now? What comes next?

Dr. Val: That sounds good.

Andrew: Full, full disclosure has been a little tricky to relaunch this season because it feels like the world is in a wildly different place. The world–

Dr. Val: Mm-hmm.

Andrew: – calls for wildly different things. And certainly I am not entirely sure what those different things are or what it looks like.

So, we're just gonna keep having conversations here and sharing thoughts with you all. And hopefully hear from you all what you think this space should be or needs to be in this current context.

Dr. Val: I do think it's important for us to continue these conversations, but more important than ever, we have to hear from people about where they are and what they need.

And so we, we really mean it when we say “Reach out and talk to us!” Because it helps us stay connected to you all and what's really happening in your communities.

Andrew: Yes. So listeners, we want to hear from you. What things are on your minds, what are you grappling with as this school year starts? Um, we have both started what I think will be somewhat influential years for us. Val, you've got a senior in high school now.

Dr. Val: I do,

Andrew: Starting to think about the college process. And a junior.

Dr. Val: I do.

Andrew: How has the year started?

Dr. Val: Uh, we had a, we had a, a wild summer. Um, just in terms of, like, home improvements, and so nothing felt normal this summer. But what has felt normal is the kids are back in school.

Andrew: Yep.

Dr. Val: And, you know, I've been kinda mentally and emotionally preparing for senior year, for a couple of years now.

I think once you enter high school, you know it's coming and, uh, I am keeping a little spreadsheet for you for budgeting purposes, so that you know all of the things that are coming.

Andrew: It’s expensive.

Dr. Val: We are actively doing the, the college search now, which is exciting and nerve wracking.

We were on the way to visit a college this weekend, and my friends were like, “Are you gonna cry?” I was like, why would I cry for going on a college visit? And then in the car I'm like, “I think I'm about to cry!” I know what, why am I about to cry?

Andrew: “What is this!”

Dr. Val: Because one of these places, you know?

Andrew: Yeah.

Dr. Val: I will drop my child off and say good luck, you know? And it happened way too quickly. So it's, it's, it's me both trying to be present in this year, and also…. You can't, like, only be present in senior year, 'cause you also have to help transition to the next. So I'm doing my best.

It's a lot! Like parents would say it's a lot, but it's a, it's a lot. It's a lot more than than just school.

Andrew: Yeah,

Dr. Val: My junior is doing great. I am thankful, at this point in their lives, that they are so close because we can do some things at, kind of, at the same time, right? So, for every visit that he goes on, she can also see the, the campuses.

They both took the ACT on the same day. So, I am really appreciative of, of that. Uh, but it's a lot. Yeah.

Andrew: How are you thinking about that choice for college? I mean, we talk a lot about, you know, choices for elementary school, for middle school, for high school. You've like obviously said a number of times your choice for a spot that is not going to murder the spirit of your children,

Dr. Val: Oh my gosh.

Andrew: In these younger eras. Like, how does, how does that show up in your thoughts about colleges?

Dr. Val: Yeah. You just made me wanna journal some of these ideas! Um, I will say that I have a 10 point rubric, like, a 10 category rubric. [Val giggles]

Andrew: Of course you do!

Dr. Val: Of course I do, that we take on these trips because I do not, I do wanna focus on, like, what's important. So we have the categories, we have the percentages. We have our observations and the conversations that, um, that he's having with, with the people in the building. And so, that is helping approach this in, in an objective way.But I think it will, like, the rubric will have to change for my daughter in terms of what feels important to her.

And, I didn't have this conversation with my parents when I was attending college as intentionally, but there are also things that I'm thinking about that I want them to be aware of.

So, if you, if you move to X/Y/Z state, what does it look like to be a resident of this state,

Andrew: Yeah.

Dr. Val: for the next four years? Like, what does the leadership look like there? What type of resources will you have access to? Like, that is something that I'm thinking about very deeply now. You know? Like, will you have access to healthcare in this state? You know, will you have access to the type of educational programs that you want to learn in this state?

And so, I think those are all part of the background for me and the conversation that, um, I am certainly having with myself. But, I brought that up on our last visit.

Andrew: What other, yeah, what other things are on your rubric? What are the things that you guys are thinking about in terms of prioritizing, wanting to achieve? And I like, I obviously–

Dr. Val: Yeah,

Andrew: –the conversation shifts pretty dramatically, I think, when you start talking about athletic scholarships, you start talking about the cost of, of, you know–

Dr. Val: Yeah,

Andrew: –secondary education, all those things.

Dr. Val: Um, it is very, very, very expensive to….

Andrew: Even to find a school! Much less to actually pay to go there!

Dr. Val: It's, it's very expensive. And something that I will say that I did not know until I got to college in undergrad that people actually paid for college. Because my mother always said, “You're not going to college unless you get a scholarship.”

I equated scholarship with admission.

Andrew: Oh, right!

Dr. Val: No, like scholarship equaled admission. I had no idea people were admitted without scholarships. I didn't know that was a thing until I got to college.

Um, the people in which my children will be around and get support from, that's major on the rubric.

And the academics is the, the other large category, in general.

And then career prep and alumni network. Like,

Andrew: Hmm.

Dr. Val: what network will you be able to access as a result of going to this school?

What I think my children have a very clear idea on, um, without it being a part of the rubric, but it's, it's probably in the vibe check category, like the overall vibe(there's an “overall vibe” category) is really whether or not they have a sense of belonging. Like, do they feel like they belong here? and that will be the message they get from the adults that they interact with the other students.

You know, that sense of, that sense of…home.

Andrew: Could this feel like home?

Dr. Val: Yeah. Yeah, yeah.

Andrew: Because yeah, the, I mean, the, the stakes are, are higher. Could you find a sense of home there, I guess. Because, you're not just there seven or eight hours a day, but you're living there.

Dr. Val: For four years.

Andrew: Yeah.

Dr. Val: For four years. And, you and I both have lived in cities outside of our home for more than four years. Four years, right? It becomes what you consider home. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Andrew: Yeah. And you want that to feel like home. Yeah.

Dr. Val: Right, right.

Andrew: Well, it will be interesting to see how the journey goes and where he ends up. Um, nice to have a lot of good options available to him, though.

Dr. Val: Yeah. As a parent, I'm going through the rollercoaster of emotions.

Andrew: Yeah.

Dr. Val: Um, I already ordered the cap and gown.

Andrew: Woo!

Dr. Val: So, how about you?

Andrew: Yeah. Yeah, also a lot of emotions. My youngest started middle school and my oldest started high school this year, so a lot of big feelings in the house, leading into the school year. But they have both settled in well.

My oldest is in high school. She's actually in the same building. The building has a middle school in it. There are different schools, but they share a building, so there's a lot about the school that feels familiar. And she knew some of the upperclassmen, so she got to freshman academy, and the two, um, upperclassmen who were running it were, were people that she had known–

Dr. Val: Awesome.

Andrew: –from being in the musical last spring. So that felt good. And she knows a couple of the teachers. She really likes the principal.

It is definitely, by many considered a quote unquote bad school, it has been struggling, for really a long time, probably since court-ordered desegregation ended, actually.

Dr. Val: Mm.

Andrew: Umm. But, there are so many opportunities. I'm just, like, shocked by the things that are available to her. It's a relatively small school. There’s, you know, 400 kids.

Dr. Val: Oh, that is a small school!

Andrew: For the whole high school. And so, my concern was a little bit, like, is she gonna have opportunities to do those sort of high school things?

But she's, you know, already enrolled in a college level sociology class. They have a show choir that just performed for all the principals in the whole district.

Dr. Val: Nice!

Andrew: She's running cross country, which is totally shocking to me 'cause she was never really into sports. Um, much more of a theater kid. But somehow the cross country coach talked her into it. And, uh, yeah! I don't know. I wouldn't say she's loving it, but she is, like, going to school at seven in the morning and running three miles before school starts, which is–

Dr. Val: Wow! That's impressive.

Andrew: Which is very, yeah. So I think part of the, part of the appeal of the school that, that I think it's overlooked a lot is, that because it is small, there are all sorts of opportunities. And, and all the kids do all the things.

Dr. Val: Right.

Andrew: You know, she can be in the musical and run cross country and take college level classes and, there's not the, like, sorting of kids into whatever things they are into. Which I think happens in, in bigger schools more quickly, so,

Dr. Val: Mm-hmm.

Andrew: Yeah! It's been, it's been a good start to the year.

Dr. Val: And the start of middle school? My favorite age group of young people. To teach, anyway.

Andrew: Yeah, there’s something wrong with you. [Val chuckles] My youngest started at an immersion school. She's been in Spanish since 3-year-old pre-K. And the options for continuing that are somewhat limited in the district.

So, she's in a middle school that I would say does not perfectly align with my values. Um, and is definitely Whiter and wealthier of a school than I would have chosen if the decision was entirely up to me. And unlike at elementary school, the decision just gets a little more complicated and she has her feelings, and–

Dr. Val: For sure.

Andrew: –her mom has her feelings. And it becomes more of a collaborative decision. And,

Dr. Val: For sure. 100%.

Andrew: You know, the language piece was, was hard to give up. And weren't a lot of other great options. And,

Dr. Val: Mm-hmm.

Andrew: You know, we've got three years of middle school. Um, I know how fast it goes. Were there other choices that we could have made that maybe feel more aligned? Probably. And, this is one, one decision along her educational journey, and I know we'll get to make another choice in a couple of years and,

Dr. Val: I mean, maybe even this year. Um,

Andrew: Or maybe even this year. Yeah.

Dr. Val: Yeah. I wanna say that I am listening and not judging. What I want to, to say and to remind all of our listeners is that the work still continues.

Andrew: Yeah.

Dr. Val: Regardless of where you go to school. Because, again, sometimes that's out of your control, but every other conversation that you have is within your control. And so, and I'm sure there's some dope teachers at that school.

Andrew: Yeah. And I'm still, you know, looking for ways to get involved and get connected and understand the community better. And figure out where I can plug in and where I can contribute to the community.

Dr. Val: I can't say how we get our assignments, Andrew, but sometimes we get assignments. And they look different from the ones that we would've chosen for ourselves. And this is your middle school assignment right now.

Andrew: Yeah.

Dr. Val: And you'll learn a lot. And your daughter will learn a lot.

Andrew: Yeah.

Dr. Val: And we gonna keep growing.

We're gonna keep growing. Yeah.

Andrew: So, she's settling in, she's making friends. She's, you know, feeling successful and that's good. And there's like a piece of me that doesn't feel great about the school in general, but I do appreciate that she feels like she has a sense of belonging there, so.

Dr. Val: Yeah, I can't wait to, for those updates.

Andrew: Speaking of not feeling great! The world right now. Uh, it's, like, kind of, kind of a mess.

Dr. Val: It is requiring so much resolve to not get sucked into a place of despair. And to still feel like there's things that can be done to benefit everyone. It's hard not to lose hope, but as long as you are breathing, you can do something.

Andrew: Yeah. There is a lot to be concerned about. Particularly, you know, when it comes to education. You know, we've seen–

Dr. Val: Yeah.

Andrew: –the Department of Education have massive cuts on its way to being largely shut down. Many of the functions that the Department of Ed served around things like data collection have just stopped entirely. You know, we've seen the Office of Civil Rights abandon so much of the work that was important, to focus on things like “reverse racism” or on, you know, quote unquote, gender ideology. Statewide mandates around things like the 10 Commandments in school, around, you know, revising history lessons.

Huge, just, like, massive attacks on–

Dr. Val: Mm-hmm.

Andrew: –LGBTQIA community, and particularly on trans kids. And, you know, an attempt to sort of erase trans identity entirely. The national voucher program in the budget reconciliation bill that passed over the summer feels like a real threat to public education broadly. ICE raids, keeping kids home, you know, kids not knowing if their parents are gonna be home when they get back from school. Shout out: our chapter leader in DC, um, posted in our Slack about some of the challenges that they're dealing with, with the current occupation of DC. AI upending how we think about work and how we think about education. There is a lot to be concerned about right now.

Dr. Val: Uh…yeah! [Laughter] Dude! If anybody's still listening. [Andrew laughs] Thank you! You're not lying, though.

Andrew: There is a lot. Yeah, there's a lot to be concerned about, and it is easy, like you said, to um, you know, potentially lose hope. But, I think there are still some pieces of hope to cling to, and some ways to activate that are, that really do actually make a difference.

And to me it seems like in this moment, building community locally feels like a huge and worthwhile place to put energy, and focus, and attention, because it is those local relationships.It is the community that we can build together that is the thing that will sustain us through the challenges we are currently facing.

Dr. Val: Yeah. I just wanna give a preemptive shout out to educators,

Andrew: Yeah.

Dr. Val: Who are still trying to teach our children, in these circumstances. And when you mentioned community, I think it's even more important to show your support for the community of people who are teaching your children.

We had a tragic fire in our neighborhood recently. And we were standing outside. It was a couple houses down. One of the children goes to the elementary school in the neighborhood. And so, typically he takes the bus, but the school was responsive and did not want to drop the kid off on the bus while his house was on fire.

And so, we're all standing outside watching the firefighters try to do their best to save the home and put out the fire. The principal walks up with the kid, like, so the principal walked the kid home. And, was there with, with the parents in that moment to, to kind of help with that transition.

So, in addition to the significant disruptions in our way of life, school, staff, employees, administrators, educators also are dealing with, like, the day-to-day–

Andrew: Right.

Dr. Val: –traumatic things that can happen to their young people. And those day-to-day things that would've happened anyway–

Andrew: Yeah.

Dr. Val: –are on top of all of these other disruptions. Whether they're cuts in funding, whether they're censorship, whether they're ICE raids at schools, right?

Um, we are living it. And it's still hard for me to wrap my head around the fact that I am a human being in this moment, in, in this society because it….I think I'm just still in a perpetual state of shock, you know? Um, I hope my blood pressure's okay.

Andrew: Yeah. I think that, that idea of community and you know, teachers, administrators are there to care for our kids. And so, that looks different depending on the context. What kids need to be cared for, you know?

I think also, and, and we'll have an episode about this coming up soon, but you know, the, the thought of all the places that are outside of school that education can happen. And the ways that community can rally around those places.

As the government becomes less reliable, both to actually provide education, you know, from a funding standpoint (in terms of, you know, vouchers, in terms of cutting national funding, in terms of withholding funding that's already been appropriated). That's one challenge that's happening to the, to the public education system. Simultaneously, certainly in a lot of states you're having, challenges to the content of what that education can be. And I think we need to, you know, be rallying to fight for that and be speaking up for honest, accurate, fully funded education, um, you know, a public education system that is actually telling the truth. Like, those things are really important to continue to do.

And, there are places outside of school that kids gather. There's the Boys and Girls clubs, there's the libraries, there are afterschool events. There, there are places where kids are that we can also focus our support and our energy towards, making sure that those spaces can be places where education continues.That's something I think, like, the Black community has done forever.

Dr. Val: Mmm.

Andrew: And there's probably some good lessons to be learned from that.

Dr. Val: Yeah. I think another thing that you didn't name but is inherent in the list of issues that we are facing is the desire to keep groups separate, right? To, to create division where there isn't currently, or there's no reason for there to be. To push the narrative that it's not worth it to try to figure out how to get along.

Andrew: Yeah.

Dr. Val: I was terrified that the pandemic was going to be a time where we would choose our silos more regularly.

And I think people fought really hard to not do that. You know, there, there are folks who said, no, we can't rest in our silos and I think that's what we need to continue to do. Like, not rest in these siloed places.

Andrew: Yeah. I think that's another place where, yeah, where building community locally is really–

Dr. Val: Mm-hmm.

Andrew: – potentially powerful.

Dr. Val: Mm-hmm.

Andrew: Um, you know, certainly trying, trying to do that in a social media ecosystem that is designed to further silo us all the time is, is a, a losing battle, I think. But…

Dr. Val: Yeah, what's your relationship with social media right now? I'm curious.

Andrew: Uh, I spend a bit of time on LinkedIn and that's about it! [Val chuckles]

Dr. Val: It's popping over there.

Andrew: Uh-huh.

Dr. Val: You know, when we first met, that was a, a major place in which I found and cultivated community.

Andrew: Yeah.

Dr. Val: And currently, I can't be there for too long unless I am watching very fascinating cleaning videos. All about those. Put that dirty rug down there and get it clean! [Andrew laughs]

Um, that feels good.

Andrew: I feel like there was about, about your sort of social media community that you built, #ClearTheAir,

Dr. Val: Mm-hmm.

Andrew: That was working counter to the algorithm a bit.

Dr. Val: I appreciate that.

Andrew: That was, like, able to build community and, and nuance and discussion in a way that, is not what kind of drives the algorithm, but I think was able to do something in that time period that I feel like the, the algorithm has just gotten stronger, and stronger, and stronger. And, like, maybe there are still places like that that exist online.

I certainly am not familiar with them. But that feels like even harder to try to do in, in the social media online space these days.

Dr. Val: I'm accepting of that, uh, that feedback around what, what we were able to do in that space.

I will say that being less active in social media has enabled me to be in situations where I am in the room with the same folks that I either would agree with or disagree with, and be present with them in a way that it's just impossible when you are behind your screen.

Andrew: Right.

Dr. Val: And I, I think in those moments, the world feels a little less crazy. Just a little, just a little,

Andrew: I might even say a lot less crazy. The most extreme version of people online just doesn't seem to show up in the same way in person.

And I think, you know, one of the challenges of this moment is that there is so much less in person and so much more online.

Dr. Val: Right,

Andrew: And online has sort of taken over as, as reality in so many ways.

Dr. Val: Right!

Andrew: And for so many people. Which is scary, which is another reason to sort of, you know, build, build local community. But I do think–

Dr. Val: Yeah.

Andrew: –the, once the cameras are off, in conversations with people who might have wildly different viewpoints. When it's no longer performing–

Dr. Val: Mmm.

Andrew: –for an audience of like-minded people, people actually, I think, are still able to find some shared humanity, to find some place to have conversations. And, um, I think those places are really hard to find. They're really hard to cultivate. They're really hard to hold onto, if you can build them. But I do think there's still value in trying to find those places.

Dr. Val: Yeah. I believe in us in that. And I, I do think that's how we're gonna make it to the other side of whatever this is right now. Because we're still parents trying to create the best world that we can for our children.

Andrew: Talking about, kind of, the other side (I have no idea what the other side is), when we will feel like we've gotten there or, or what that looks like. But I do think there is an opportunity in this moment, as, so much of the system is crumbling.

We know that, that budgets are being cut everywhere. That funding for education is going down. It's easy in those moments to think about abandoning the public education system. You're looking at a public education system that is, you know, continually being underfunded. There's just not enough investment in education. And then, the investment that we are making in some places certainly seems to be counter to teaching an honest history of the country, to preparing kids for the world that they're actually going to inherit.

But I do think, you know, in, in the wake of that, there's a tendency to throw up your hands and say, “All right, this whole system is, is screwed. Let's abandon it. It's time to go, you know, off on my own and go to private school or um, homeschool,” or whatever it is. And, and I think, you know, people are gonna make the choices that they're gonna make in these hard moments, but I think there's a, an opportunity right now to think about what do we actually want from our education system?What do we actually want it to do?

And one of the things that has undermined equity in a lot of places is the idea of local control. That local control of schools has been a tool used to further segregate, used to, you know, change curriculum and whatnot.

But there's a way to use local control to say like, how are we gonna make this school, this school where my kids go, or this district where my kids go, how am I gonna contribute to making this a place that is actually educating kids in the way that I think they should be educated? In a way that the community can come together and say, this is what we actually want from our education system. And so I think, you know,

Dr. Val: Yeah.

Andrew: Finding places where you can get involved in that feels like another, another positive step to take right now.

Dr. Val: Yeah. We need people who are working both currently within the way the system is currently functioning. So please continue to go to your school board meetings.

Andrew: Yep.

Dr. Val: Please continue to be a part of those conversations, speaking up in those more traditional ways. And we also see how the institutions that we have relied on to be checks and balances aren't necessarily operating in that same way. And so, just a, a multi-pronged approach to advocacy, I think is, is really important.

Andrew: Yeah. I think we can defend the institution of public education without defending the status quo.

Dr. Val: Mm-hmm.

Andrew: Acknowledging that there are many ways in which the public education system has been failing kids. Um, some kids from the founding of the public education system and you know, today even, even more kids in many ways.

And that doesn't mean that the answer is to abandon public education, because I still continue to believe that we can't have a functioning democracy without it.

Dr. Val: When you say that, you know, our schools have failed, that the system has failed many students, what is not assumed in that is that it has failed White and privileged kids in different ways.

Andrew: Mm.

Dr. Val: So yes, Black and Brown children, Indigenous children, in many instances historically have been harmed by school. And there are, are schools that we would give an A+ rating who I think have harmed White and privileged students in a different way.

Andrew: Absolutely

Dr. Val: And so, yeah, I, I don't want people to, to assume that when you say “failing school,” that it's only about Black and Brown students.

And I think about to your own elementary school experience. You may have been to a “poor” school, and your daughter may have been to a, you know, a school that everyone said was “struggling.” And yet,

Andrew: Right.

Dr. Val: You're a beautiful human who's willing to engage in these conversations with me. And she's a beautiful human, you know, with her eyes open to a, a, a larger perspective that she may have missed.

Andrew: 100%. I appreciate that. You look at the state of the country right now and see the failures of education for everybody.

Dr. Val: Mm-hmm.

Andrew: In the country.

Dr. Val: Mm-hmm.

Andrew: Like, we are–

Dr. Val: Yeah.

Andrew: – all struggling to get along because we have not had schools that are teaching us to get along.

Dr. Val: Yeah.

Andrew: We are all struggling to feel like we have a voice and a, a say and that, like, we can impact the way that the country works, the way that our communities work, the way that our cities work the way that our school communities work. That is a result of, you know, schools that have not focused on belonging. That as a result of schools that have not focused on giving everyone the tools that they need. Everyone. The tools they need to actually thrive in the world. And we have looked so narrowly at what it means to have the tools to thrive, as, you know, standardized test scores being the answer to that. And so we have schools that have really good standardized test scores that are spitting out, you know, White privileged students who have no ability to engage in cross-racial dialogue.

Dr. Val: Yeah. When we talk about patriotic education, what an amazing experience it would be to say, here's the true history of my country that failed so many people in so many ways historically. But we, as a people of this country said, “we want to be better. We want to be the best. We want to show the world that although we were here, we have fought together to get to this other place.”

Talk about true patriotic education that every single person can be proud of!

Andrew: And feel committed to, to doing the work to continue that.

Dr. Val: Right!

Andrew: You know, we haven't arrived. There is still work to do. That work will always be there.

Dr. Val: Yeah,

Andrew: But we can choose a path that says we can do better. We can be better.

Dr. Val: Absolutely. Something to truly be proud of, and stand in, and feel confident in and know that… we had some things to work through, y'all. We had a lot of stuff to work through, and we're still working through it, and that's what makes us exceptional.

Andrew: Yeah. There is the possibility of, of exceptionalism in facing our past.

Dr. Val: Yeah.

Andrew: Honestly. And saying, “How do we do better?”

Dr. Val: Yeah.

Andrew: And that's certainly the kind of education I want for my kids. And that feels sometimes, you know, easier and sometimes harder to find.

The other Black educational tradition that, that we talked about last season with Sharif El-mekki, you know, this idea that education is to be used for activism. There is a, a role to play for education, to serve as a tool to make the country a better place.

Dr. Val: Yeah.

Andrew: To make your community a better place, to make your neighborhood a better place, your city a better place. Like, those are things that–

Dr. Val: Yeah.

Andrew: –we need even more right now is, is explicit education about “Here's why it's important that you learn these things, because these are the tools you can use to actually make the world a better place for yourself and for your fellow classmates.”

Dr. Val: What I just felt in the conversation that we just had is what I feel when we're having a conversation that matters.

Andrew: Yeah.

Dr. Val: Right? When we're surfacing our thinking, um, and expressing it as, imperfect as it might seem in this moment.

Andrew: Yeah.

Dr. Val: Right? Uh, and recognizing by the end of the season, we could have, certainly, we should have evolved thoughts.

Andrew: Right.

Dr. Val: Like, the conversations should change us and shift us and want us to learn more and do more.

This is season 12 and this is our fourth season together. So I, I'm looking forward to it. I am glad that we both continue to grow.

Andrew: Yeah. Absolutely.

Dr. Val: For sure.

Andrew: Yeah, and I think that's, like, certainly, like, the, the thing that has been sustaining me through these chaotic times, is conversations that matter.

Dr. Val: Mm-hmm.

Andrew: I feel like I'm, like, somewhat insatiable right now. Like every, every person in my life is sort of like, “Whoa, calm down a little bit. Like, ease up!” [Andrew laughs]

Dr. Val: Yeah.

Andrew: Like, every person I know, I've just, like, want to have, I just only want to have the conversations that feel like they really matter.

So, certainly would encourage folks to go out there and find the people in your lives, and just talk about the stuff that maybe you haven't talked about before. Just talk about the things that, you know, feel like are important to you, feel like you care about.

That is something that feels, like, sustaining and, and keeps me going in these hard times. So,

Dr. Val: Yeah. Yeah,

Andrew: Listeners, we wanna hear from you. What is–

Dr. Val: Please!

Andrew: –happening in your cities? Where are you finding community? What is keeping you going?

And what do you wanna hear this season? We've got some things planned, uh, but are always curious what conversations would feel useful to you? So reach out: podcast@integratedschools.org. Find us on social media @integratedschools, or leave us a voice memo: speakpipe.com/integratedschools. We would love to hear from you.

Dr. Val: Also, we would love to ask you for your continued financial support.

Andrew: Absolutely.

Dr. Val: So, there is on our website, a big red “donate” button. You can press it at any point, um, to donate to the, to the work of the podcast. And, um, we appreciate all that you can give.

Andrew: Absolutely. You can also do that at patreon.com/integratedschools. If you wanna join our Patreon community - show notes and, uh, happy hours. We're gonna start, start up our podcast happy hours again here in the next couple weeks. We would love to see you there. Um, also quick shout out. We (Val and I) were guests on the Raising Anti-Racist Kids podcast.

Dr. Val: Woot woot!

Andrew: Had a lovely conversation with Tabitha and Adam over there. There'll be a link to that in the show notes. Check that out. If you know of other podcasts where Val and I should be guests, let us know. We really enjoy being guests on other people's podcasts as well.

Dr. Val: We're actually really good at being guests on other people's podcasts.

Andrew: We did. I think we did pretty well, actually.

Dr. Val: We're amazing at it! [Val chuckles]

Andrew: Um, let us know what podcasts you listen to that you think we should be guests on, and we will reach out to them and see if we can make that happen.

Dr. Val: That's right.

Andrew: And yeah, just keep showing up for each other. Keep, uh, finding ways to be in community, finding ways to get closer to each other because, as you always say, Val, together is the only way we win.

Dr. Val: That's it. That is it. Friend, I am looking forward to this, this season.

Andrew: As am I. As always, it is an honor for me to be in this with you as I try to know better and do better.

Dr. Val: Until next time.

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