S10E7 – 2023 In Review

2023 Wrap Up

Andrew: Welcome to the Integrated Schools podcast. I'm Andrew, a White dad from Denver,

Dr. Val: And I am Val, a Black mom from North Carolina.

Andrew: And this is 2023 In Review. And Val, here we are at the end of 2023 and we thought we would just take a little time to reflect on the first half of this season, on how the year's been going, talk a little bit about our hopes for 2024, give some updates on Integrated Schools, and most importantly, share some awesome voice memos that listeners sent in.

Dr. Val: Ooh! My favorite. That is the most important. So I remember when we started this season and this school year, we talked about how this felt (knock on wood), like, the first normal school year in a couple of years. Right? And where our, our kids were stable in the same place. You know, I personally was, was rooted in a neighborhood. And this morning I dropped my son off at school. Last week though, I had to check him out early, but while I was waiting for him to come out of the classroom, I was chatting with the receptionist at the front desk. And she's a Christmas person, and she started talking about her Christmas tree decorations and multiple Christmas trees. And she was like, “And I have like a nutcracker tree.” And I was like, “Oh, that's cool!” You know? And she's a Black woman, and I was like, “Well, do you have any Black nutcrackers?” And she's like, “I don't have any!” Oh, I was like, “Well, I got a couple! I can bring them to you.”

And so, I dropped off four beautiful Black nutcrackers this morning and she wasn't there, and I left her a note and, you know, because she works in the school, she has my cell phone number, but she sent me a text and she was like, “Thank you so much!I was ecstatic to receive these nutcrackers, they'll be a perfect addition to our, to our family tree and tradition.”

And I think that goes back to a theme that we've talked about throughout the season, and that's the power of community and the power of being in place.

And I didn't realize until I got it. You, what's that song? “You Don't Know What You're Missing Until It’s Gone.” You know? And so I didn't realize that I was, I was missing so much of that, being connected to community and, and the local school.

I feel like that is something I'm gonna wanna sustain even after my young people graduate, because I am close enough to a school to contribute in many ways, even once, once my kids graduate.

Andrew: Yeah. That's beautiful. Those are little things that nobody ever thought about in terms of, you know, what do we do during the pandemic? And I think people still don't really think much about when we, when we think about, you know, the safety protocols that go into place around a school and, you know, who can enter the building and who can't and how, how does a school feel welcoming to the kids, obviously, a nd, you know, we'll have some more conversations about that coming up in the, in the new year, but also to families and to, to parents, to caregivers, how does the school feel welcoming? Because I think that's incredibly important and it's not something it's, it's hard to track, it's hard to measure. But it, it does have a real impact on how you feel sort of connected to a school community.

Dr. Val: Yeah. How about you? You know, you're halfway through the school year. What are you thinking and feeling about this year?

Andrew: Yeah. You know, it has been a good year. I, I'm regularly struck by how fast it feels like middle school is going.

Dr. Val: Oh! Yes!

Andrew: And we’re basically halfway through middle school already and just how wildly different that is from the elementary school experience where we started out with a three-year-old, you know, pre-K staring down a decade of being at a school. And middle school feels like it's going really fast. And I've also been appreciating the kind of more, like, boring day-to-day, just, like, interactions that you have because you happen to show up in the space, so that part has been nice.

Dr. Val: Yeah. You, you talk about being a middle school parent and it does go quickly. Hold on, hold on.

Andrew: Yeah.

Dr. Val: And I'm thinking about being a parent of someone who is halfway through high school at this point and how quickly that is going. And I, I knew middle school was gonna be quick, but for whatever reason, it feels like high school is moving even faster.

And recognizing what it, what it means to raise a young adult, right? We talk about raising children and I think mentally and emotionally and spiritually, I'm moving from like, oh, I'm raising a child to, I'm raising an adult who will hopefully go off on their own and do great things in the world.

And that's a shift that, you know, I, I'm not quite sure how to hold on! And so, you know, you think you'll have a, a handle on this parenting thing and then the next day happens, you're like, “I have no idea what I'm doing!”

Andrew: Actually I know nothing.

Dr. Val: I literally still know nothing.

[Val chuckles]

Andrew: Yeah. Maybe there's something reassuring that that doesn't change. I feel like that, you know, that’s–

Dr. Val: Yeah!

Andrew: –been from the very beginning. You've got a, you've got a newborn and you're like, “Oh, I just figured out how to get them to sleep.” And then they're like, “Psych!”

That's not how I like to sleep anymore. And then “I figured out how to get them to eat something.” Nope, that's not what they, and yeah, I guess that just keeps going.

Dr. Val: Yeah. I guess, yeah, you can, you can rest assured that parenting will be constant change and adjustment. So,

Andrew: Yeah. So certainly that idea of being in community, that's been one of the themes we've focused on in the podcast this season as well. We've also been talking about the power of public schools. Which obviously, you know, both of our stories of a relatively regular school year have started out in the public schools in our neighborhoods.

Um, the power of storytelling and the power of stamina. And just thinking back on the, you know, first six episodes of this season, we have had some great examples of all that. And, you know, we started out with reconnecting just you and I talking about what we hoped for this season, laying out those themes.

We had John Blake who came on to talk about, uh, The Demands and Promises of Integration and tell his story, and certainly lots of storytelling and the power being a community and stamina in his story. Just such a lovely storyteller.

We had Jade Adia who wrote There Goes The Neighborhood, um, talk about the power of storytelling, a YA novel.

We had Dr. Erica Turner, Managing an Increasingly Diverse and Unequal Education System, and I've heard so much great feedback about that episode that changed the way people thought about things. And we had Richard Rothstein and Leah Rothstein, Taking Just Action.

Um, another one of those sort of pinch yourself moments, can't believe you get to be in conversation with some of these people.

Dr. Val: I know! And they're saying nice things about us too!

Andrew: Which is lovely. Which is lovely. Um, and then we just had this episode that, that one of our summer interns, Jayden, found, uh, the Teaching Hard History and the conversation that he and I shared. That was really lovely.

So we've covered a lot of ground in, in the first half of this season! What have, what have you learned?

Dr. Val: Oh man. With all of those episodes there are things that, um, kind of sit with me. But kicking off with the episode with John about the demands and promises of integration, I'm thinking about how you have to be intentional in your desire and willingness to listen to others, right? That that takes time, that takes commitment. That takes a willingness.

Andrew: Yeah.

Dr. Val: And, finding that time, or carving out that time feels like something that, um, is hard to do. Right? To just sit and listen with folks or listen to, to someone's story. And I think if you are not careful, you can find yourself, like, losing patience and doing that. Like, having to wait and listen to someone's story.

So even in the example with the receptionist at, my son's school, I was there waiting for my son to come down to get checked out early, right? I could have sat in the corner,

Andrew: Got on your phone.

Dr. Val: Yep! And, you know, totally tuned out everything and just kinda waited. But it felt like a cool opportunity to get to learn more about the people who were there to support my young person, right?

And so, I wanna encourage our listeners that when those moments present themselves to just take, take up the opportunity to, to listen to someone.

I was picking up food the other day (and I don't even know how this started!),

I was waiting for a takeout order and I, now I know Joshua's whole life! You know?

[Laughter]

Like, I was, I know what Joshua's interested in. Joshua also has a podcast. He invited me to his Discord channel. You know, like,

Andrew: Yeah.

Dr. Val: His eyes lit up when there was someone there to listen to him. And it didn't cost me anything. I was waiting for my food. You know, we, we both had a, a valuable experience and we were just able to connect on, on a human level.

And so, I think one of my biggest takeaways with all of our, our episodes this season is we really have to be intentional about connecting on a human level. And that is listening to stories, that is taking the time, that is putting your phone away when you have a moment that you're forced to wait anyway.

So that's one for me.

Andrew: Yeah, yeah. You know, one of the gifts of the podcast is that it sort of forces this time to sit down and just talk and try to really connect with people. But you don't need to have, uh, an hour scheduled on a recording platform to do that!

People are all around. I, I tell my kids this all the time (and I think it probably would, wouldn't hurt for me to remember it as well), but, like, everybody you meet has something to teach you. Everybody you meet has lived a different life than you have in some way that gives them some unique perspective.

And if you can find a way to get at that, then like how much richer is your life for that?

Dr. Val: Yeah.

Andrew: In think, in thinking about that, the power of relationships, the power of getting to know somebody, that everybody has something to teach you. I think, like, public schools are such a powerful place to engage in that, to set kids up to, to learn, not just learn the skills from that, but also to actually have those kind of relationships.

And, I think I was struck by, from, you know, both Dr. Erica Turner and the Rothsteins, the, the systems and the structures that are in place that work counter to that.

You know, we have this, the, the racial segregation that exists, that was through deliberate policy that the Rothsteins talked about. And then this sort of idea of, you know, race-evasive managerialism that Dr. Turner talked about. About, you know, we kind of try to professionalize and managerialize the way that we approach education and learning, and if we are not cognizant of race, if we're not taking a sort of active stance about the ways that we have been racist in the past to try to, try to sort of rectify some of those harms, then we end up just keeping the status quo in place.

Dr. Val: Yeah. I think what I got from both of those interviews, was the fact that there were things that I could do, languages that I could use, conversations that I could be explicit about, questions that I could ask. Just deepening my critical consciousness around many of these issues, right?

Understanding the connectedness and how a policy in my school system might intentionally or unintentionally impact under-resourced or Black and Brown young people. And so,

Andrew: Yeah.

Dr. Val: It was a signal to me to remain vigilant and to remember, you know, that we have power.

So if I'm a, if I'm a central office person or an educator, I have power to impact the ways in which the system is operating. If I am a resident of a community, I have power to take action.

And if listeners hang around long enough, we will get them busy!

Like, you're gonna be busy hanging, hanging out with us. And in a way that hopefully feels like you're contributing to, to your school and to your community.

Andrew: Yeah. Yeah, and telling stories about, about that contributing, because I think, you know, to tie into sort of the last, the last theme of the season, this stamina.

Dr. Val: Mmm.

Andrew: It is in that feeling empowered. It is in that feeling like you are able to make change. Like there is, positive things happening from the work that you're putting in.

And not that, like, every action that you take is going to immediately change the world, but that there is sort of like long-term hope in, in the vision that, that we all can come together to work for, that gives stamina. That builds the long-term ability to keep at this work and, and to deepen those relationships, and to keep telling the stories is the way that we keep on this work that can sometimes feel a little bit overwhelming.

Dr. Val: That's right. And, and we have to take out, you know, a serving size. Serving size, take a serving size. Right? Don't try to do it all right now. Um, I'm talking to myself in that gummy bear bag. Yes. Serving size.

[Laughter]

Andrew: A single serving of, of justice at a time. Well, keeping those themes going through the second half of this season, uh, we've got some great things planned in the New Year, listeners. So definitely make sure you've hit that follow button so that you're getting all the episodes.

We've already recorded a couple of things. It'll be coming out as soon as we can get to it after the holidays. Not that I wanna make any promises 'cause who know, who knows when that will actually be, but sometime starting out in January/February, we'll have more episodes coming.

And that we actually got an amazing opportunity to speak with the Assistant Secretary of Education for the country.

Dr. Val: Yes we did! Yes we did.

Andrew: Which was pretty incredible. One of your personal friends, Val, right?

Dr. Val: Hey, I do what I can.

[Laughter]

Andrew: Which was awesome! Actually yeah, a couple, a couple, another friend of yours, John, uh, we're gonna be sharing his story coming up, uh, which was a great conversation.

And Dr. Shanette Porter, uh, who does research around belonging and, kind of, school climate and culture, which was just an incredible episode. I think the, the first time that you've shed tears in the middle of an interview.

Dr. Val: We coming in hot in 2024!

Andrew: We’re coming in hot in 2024.

Dr. Val: That’s right. That's right.

Andrew: Uh, we'll also be hearing some more from our interns and we've got some other great stuff planned.

One of the things we would love, obviously, love more of your voice memos. We're about to hear some of them. So keep them coming. And May of 2024 is the 70th anniversary of the Brown v Board decision. And so we are thinking about, kind of, how to commemorate that and how to talk about that and think about that.

So if you have ideas you wanna share about that, please reach out to us, podcast@integrateschools.org so we have lots of ideas.

Dr. Val: And ask your, ask your family members, specifically those who are directly impacted by that decision, if they're willing to come on and, and talk to us.

Andrew: Oh yeah! Some voice memos from, from the older generation would be incredible. Ask them a couple of questions about what their experience at Brown v Board was like, and send them our way, we would be eternally grateful.

Dr. Val: Yeah.

Andrew: So, speaking of voice memos, Val, let's take a listen to some stuff that came in.

Dr. Val: Let's do it.

Anna: Hey, Andrew and Val. This is Anna and I wanted to express my extreme gratitude for you both and everyone else on the podcast team. Listening to you two together and all the amazing guests you've brought in, and difficult conversations you've tackled have put so many big ideas into my head as I go through the process of growing and being a member of my school community.

One thing that we do as a family over the holidays is, we go around the room at dinner and do a thing called “Helpful, Hard, and Unexpected.” Um, so I'm curious i f you wanna share with us, maybe related to the podcast, maybe related to being a parent/caregiver, maybe related to being in your school community. So, let's pretend we're all sitting around the dinner table, and I'd love to know your helpful, hard and unexpecteds. Happy holidays.

Andrew: I love that.

Dr. Val: Man. That's a great prompt. Listeners make sure you do this as well. This is,

Andrew: Helpful, hard, and unexpected. Send us your voice memos, listeners. What was helpful, hard, and unexpected for you this year?

Dr. Val: Yeah. Okay. I'm gonna cheat for the sake of time but I encourage all of you to spend deep time trying to come up with different answers for all of them. But for this calendar year for me, um, what was helpful, hard, and unexpected was, the conference that I put on, the Educator Conference for Human Connection. Um, it hit every one of those, those boxes.

It was, it was hard to put, you know, my dreams out there and go for it and raise money for it and try to generate interest. Especially at a time where, um, my preferred social media was imploding and I didn't know how to connect with people. I was doing it as some heart work and so it was on top of regular work and family stuff. It was helpful because it helped me, kind of, heal from the isolation that I felt during the pandemic when we were all hunkered down, you know, in our homes and not seeing other people. And so, to be able to connect with friends and new friends, um, was incredibly important.

And I think what was unexpected (I probably don't give myself enough credit), uh, but what was unexpected was that, like, people actually showed up!

[Val laughs]

And wanted, and wanted to participate, and wanted to contribute, and wanted to be a part of this community.

And so, that answers all of them. That was for me something that was helpful, hard and, and unexpected. So,

Andrew: Yeah. Yeah, that's great. I, I, I will also cheat. Um, but I think, you know, the, the podcast, um, continues to be helpful, hard and unexpected. There is a lot of work that goes into putting episodes together, to finding guests, to reading the books, to, you know, getting ready for the conversations.

I think every conversation has ended up being unexpected in some way in both, you know, the guests and their willingness to share their expertise, their personal opinions, their, sort of, insights and and whatnot. And then these conversations that you and I get to have are, are always so helpful.

So, um, my also single shot answer would be the podcast and, that's a great prompt, listeners. Send us your helpful, hard, and unexpected. We'd love to hear it.

Dr. Val: Absolutely.

Andrew: All right. Let's take a listen to another voice memo.

Duke:Hi, this is Duke from Portland. Just wanted to say thank you so much for everything you do for raising awareness around integrated schools and kind of changing the way we think about public education in general.

One of the things that speaks to me, so loud and clearly about the work that y'all do, I guess the work that we all do, but that y'all have spearheaded for the past several years, is that there's this real attempt to try and deconstruct education from the status quo, and by proxy think what it means to be in our communities. Not just our learning communities, not just our schools, but our actual communities. And seeing where we place our values and how we live those values. You know, that old idea of “you gotta walk your talk,” and there's so many people who are really invested in trying to maintain a strong talk, but you know, sometimes they're just not out there doing that walk.

And one of the things that, that I've always been impressed with, is that y'all do the walk every episode. I love it. I appreciate you. Thank you both for, for being the voices and thank you to all the, the volunteers who help elevate the perspectives of your guests.

It's just been a, a great ride and looking forward to as many more as there are available. Happy holidays and mvto (thank you).

Andrew: Thank you, Duke!

So “mvto” is the Muscogee language word for “thank you.” Duke is Native, um, and I believe our, uh, response to that is supposed to be enka.

Dr. Val: Enka, Duke. We appreciate you too.

Andrew: Absolutely.

Dr. Val: What I hope all of our listeners get (and Duke demonstrated this), is that he's not here for us to have all of the answers. Right? He's here to be in some part, part of the conversation, you know, that we're having and thus, you know, be part of a conversation that, that he might be having locally.

And that has always been a goal for us, to model that we don't know all that there is to know. We value the contributions of our guests, we value each other's experiences. We honor those and we recognize the truth in our own individual experiences and um, we try to build from there. And so, that feels like we're hitting our own personal goals with this work, you know, doing this together.

Andrew: To your point that we don't know all the answers, there is real time grappling to this idea of the power of relationships, the power of being in community, the power of, you know, getting to know someone and being in conversation with them. It just makes, makes all of your ideas much richer.

Dr. Val: Yeah. I, I hope listeners know, like we don't script!

[Val laughs]

Andrew: Right!

Dr. Val: Our intros and outros, the grappling is real. So, sometimes Andrew will say something and I'm like, “Ahh…uhhhh,” you know, and I'm making faces on this side of the microphone.

And that real time grappling, I think, builds the muscle to continue to engage in conversations that might not always be smooth, or might be a little uncomfortable. Yeah.

Andrew: Right. I think my, my other favorite part of Duke's voice memo was, you know, when, when he said the work that you all do. Well actually, the work we all do because I, you know, again, if we are being successful, people are feeling like this is all of our work to do, that we are all engaged in this, so I really appreciated that as well.

Dr. Val: Yeah,

Andrew: I think we can get to one more voice memo–

Dr. Val: Let's do it.

Andrew: –we received. So let's take a listen to this one.

Betsy: Hello! Good morning. I saw the call for, um, voice memos for the final podcast episode of the year, and something that's been on my mind that I wanted to share or just get some other thoughts on, was that as a parent at an integrating school as a White parent, specifically at integrating school, I've noticed that there, there can be a little sense, um, of martyrdom.

Or entitlement. Maybe more so martyrdom among White parents who do choose integration at their local neighborhood or public school. Um, this feeling, like, “We have made a sacrifice to do this, so we are owed something.”

Or you know, “Aren't we amazing people for making that sacrifice? And here we are and we could be other places. Because we have that, uh, privilege, but we chose to be here.” And sometimes that martyrdom, I think, has a real impact on our ability to do the work, build community, um, and again, sort of really achieve actual racial justice and, and do the anti-racist work. And so again, this, this martyrdom thing has just been on my mind.

Um, love to hear thoughts on it and appreciate the work you both do. Um, my name is Betsy Breeder and I am a parent in Atlanta with two kids in Atlanta public schools. Again, thank you so much!

Dr. Val: Man!

Andrew: Thank you, Betsy!

Dr. Val: Betsy, that was a great call! I'm gonna… let my White colleague start with this one.

[Laughter]

Andrew: That's fair! That was, it, May, may have been more directed to, uh, to me.

Dr. Val: Well, I I wanna listen first, I wanna listen to this part. Tell me!

Andrew: Get some popcorn.

Dr. Val: Yes.

Andrew: Yeah, I mean, I do, I, it's, it's a great question. I think, you know, I've certainly seen that same tendency, among people who feel like, you know, “I am making the social justice ‘sacrifice’ to send my kid to this ‘terrible’ school. And so I demand that, you know, my, my needs are, are catered to at all times.”

And, yeah, as Betsy mentioned, it really gets in the way of building relationships. It really gets in the way of becoming part of a community.

I think, you know, when we think about sort of diversity as a commodity, when we think about like, “What am I getting for my kid out of this experience,” it can tend into that sort of like, uh, martyrdom or, like, White saviorism place.

And like the, the, the truth is, like, I think my kids are really getting really incredible things out of this experience. Like there is, there is some bit of that, like, “It is good for my kids” and I do think it is, like, making the world a slightly better place. You know, it's not like solving racism. It's not creating, racial nirvana through my one family's action. And I do think there is some positive, like, nationwide level impact of my decision. And trying to sort of balance those things out and not, not get too caught up in either of them feels like one of the challenges.

Because, because I think, you know, either “This is really great for my kid and it's just about, like, me patting their resume a little bit,” or like, “Here I am to save the world by making this choice.”

Both of those sort of extremes (my guess would be), make you somebody that people don't really necessarily wanna be friends with or start a relationship with.

Dr. Val: Um, I'm thinking so many things, Betsy's comment really made me pause. And so my first wondering, what is this about? I think it might be an attempt for White folks as the minority in the school to connect with other White folks. To say, like, “Hey, you and I are alike in this very different situation because we are both ‘heroes,’ you know, in our, in our communities.”

And so, I wanna offer up other things to talk about. I do! There are other ways to connect outside of, like, trauma bonding or,

Andrew: Yeah.

Dr. Val: Savior signals, or, I don't, I don't even have a cool term for, this is new! Betsy, this is new. Thank you for really pushing me in this, I feel like there's a solution, a real solution that would, would lead to more meaningful conversation.

Andrew: I think there's something in that of the need to be reminded that parenting, caregiving in general, like we are all invested in it the same. We are all here because we want our kids to succeed.

We want our kids to, to thrive. And that is the sort of thing that unifies us all, helps us reconnect to that kind of shared humanity.

Dr. Val: This has been great.

Andrew: Yes. Thank you for that, Betsy. We appreciate that, and leads us nicely, Betsy is actually one of the new board members of Integrated Schools.

Um, very excited to announce that we have an official Board of Directors. The organization (some of you may have been following along), but over the past couple of years, uh, Integrated Schools as an organization has undertaken some consulting work to figure out, kind of, what does the next phase of this organization look like. Uh, we heard loud and clear a recommendation that we need a little more structure, a Board of Directors, and we put out a call and we were just blown away by the number and quality of the candidates of people who are interested in being part of the Board of Directors for this organization,

And we are so excited to welcome them. We have 11 incredible people to, sort of, kick off our Board of Directors. If you wanna see more, there'll be a link in the show notes to a blog post about them. You can go to our website, integratedschools.org, read more about them. And Betsy is one of those lovely people who will be helping us think about, kind of, next steps for the organization and, and where we go from here.

Dr. Val: I’m really proud of the fact that Integrated Schools was responsive to the community in saying like “hey, we do need some more direction. Help us get to the next step.” So thank you to the community members who spoke up about that, and thank you to our board members and the volunteers who are taking it upon themselves to be part of that change. We could not do this work without you, and we appreciate you.

Andrew: So grateful for all of the volunteers who help keep Integrated Schools going. Um, you know, it's a, a volunteer-run organization. And, every now and then I try to sort of step back and, and look at all the work that we are doing and all the things that we've been able to achieve, over the years and, and just blown away by the amount that we are able to get done as an all volunteer organization.

So if you would like to be one of those volunteers, we always have stuff we need help with. There's more to do than there are people to do it. And we can plug you in, in whatever way feels comfortable for you. From, you know, a regular standing one hour a week to find 10 minutes in your day here and there to, uh, come and, you know, take on a whole big project for us.

Uh, this is really a grassroots movement and we need everyone's help and support to do that.

And we also need your financial support. So, one of the things that our new board will be undertaking is looking at hiring some paid staff to make sure that this work stays sustainable. So if you are in a place, I know this is a hard time of year for asks, lots of demands on your pocketbooks.

But, if you're in a place where you are able to give, we would be grateful. You can go to patreon.com/integratedschools and sign up to be a regular contributor to the podcast work. The money that does not directly go to funding the podcast goes into the organization. So that's a way to give.

Or you can just go to our website, integrated schools.org. There's a big donate button at the top. One time donations, recurring donations. We're incredibly grateful for it all. This work is important. This work has reached a lot of people and this work requires resources to maintain and to grow. And, uh, we're excited about the potential for doing that, and we really could use your support.

So, if you're able, please do that. We would be grateful.

Dr. Val: Yes, thank you so much for considering donating to us. We promise to be good stewards of the money. We hope that you’ve been proud of the work that’s come out of Integrated Schools, and know that your financial donations will only allow us to increase our impact and increase our reach.

And, as Andrew mentioned, we love also, your time. So if you can donate any of that, please reach out, as we will absolutely find something for you to do. I think that’s how I got here. I say “hey, I wanna help”, next thing you know, look at me, two years later, and trapped.

[laughter]

Andrew: I just can't express my gratitude to you enough another year in the books. Great conversations. Pushed my thinking in all sorts of new ways.

I always learn something when I'm in conversation with you, and I'm incredibly grateful for that and grateful to be in this with you as I try to know better and do better.